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Google fined €100M by Italian antitrust over Google Play abuse of dominance

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Re: Google fined €100M by Italian antitrust over Google Play abuse of dominance

#251

Post by zepto »

swiley wrote: post #248
zepto wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>App Store stopped more than $1.5 billion in potentially fraudulent transactions in 2020 > They never justify or source this, they literally just pulled it out of their ass. They pulled it out of their data. > Nope, you can use Facebook messenger from an iPhone or even a Pinephone. Exactly - as I said, there is no shortage of cross platform apps you can use to do group chat. > Apple is running the only popular chat…

If you hand auth secrets to random apps on the App Store they will get stolen, this happens all the time. Having some contractor spend a few hours poking at the GUI doesn't mean consumers aren't required to be responsible.

> If you hand auth secrets to random apps on the App Store they will get stolen,

I agree. This is why Apple is offering ‘login with Apple’. It’s safer than entering credentials.

> this happens all the time.

No it doesn’t. There are a few rare cases, but many more are stopped by review.

> Having some contractor spend a few hours poking at the GUI doesn't mean consumers aren't required to be responsible.

No, but almost nobody is dealing with SSH keys, and those who are should know how to deal with them.

These are consumer devices - if you need a device you can inspect the source for, these are not for you, but clearly almost nobody can do that.

Re: Google fined €100M by Italian antitrust over Google Play abuse of dominance

#252

Post by swiley »

zepto wrote: post #251
swiley wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hand auth secrets to random apps on the App Store they will get stolen, this happens all the time. Having some contractor spend a few hours poking at the GUI doesn't mean consumers aren't required to be responsible.

> If you hand auth secrets to random apps on the App Store they will get stolen, I agree. This is why Apple is offering ‘login with Apple’. It’s safer than entering credentials. > this happens all the time. No it doesn’t. There are a few rare cases, but many more are stopped by review. > Having some contractor spend a few hours poking at the GUI doesn't mean consumers aren't required to be responsible. No, but almost…

>if you need a device you can inspect the source for, these are not for you, but clearly almost nobody can do that.

Again: IPHONE USERS TEND TO LEAVE PEOPLE WHO DO THIS OUT OF GROUP CHATS BECAUSE OF HOW APPLE ABUSES THE PLATFORM.

Re: Google fined €100M by Italian antitrust over Google Play abuse of dominance

#253

Post by jimnotgym »

amacneil wrote: post #158
collaborative wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely easy, but it also is extremely easy to get permanently banned if they find out you "switched on" a hidden feature once the app got into production. A permanent ban can be very damaging, so one needs to make sure to be completely legit when it comes to app store submission reviews and app store ratings

Can confirm. We got the Coinbase iOS app banned for doing this back in the day, when Apple did not allow bitcoin apps (IIRC showing the price was ok, transacting was not). Even after they relaxed their bitcoin restrictions (and calls to the head of app store), they still made us wait out the 12 month ban before reinstating the app. https://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-bitcoin-app-apple-app-stor... https://venturebeat.co…

> Apple did not allow bitcoin apps

This is what is wrong with walled gardens, laws should be made by lawmakers, not Apple.

Re: Google fined €100M by Italian antitrust over Google Play abuse of dominance

#254

Post by zepto »

swiley wrote: post #250
zepto wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>App Store stopped more than $1.5 billion in potentially fraudulent transactions in 2020 > They never justify or source this, they literally just pulled it out of their ass. They pulled it out of their data. > Nope, you can use Facebook messenger from an iPhone or even a Pinephone. Exactly - as I said, there is no shortage of cross platform apps you can use to do group chat. > Apple is running the only popular chat…

I meant to mention this in my other reply but can't now because of noprocrast. >You are one of a tiny minority of specialists who can do this. End users in general quite obviously cannot. "Experts" inspecting the source code for apps allowed for some bare minimum security checks. Companies buy out smaller software projects and add spyware to them fairly often (on the iPhone this usually happens via dylibs rather than…

> Companies buy out smaller software projects and add spyware to them fairly often (on the iPhone this usually happens via dylibs rather than the App publisher purposefully doing it.)

Yes.

and Apple has removed one of the only ways to catch this without an adequate replacement.

No - these can be scanned for during app review.

> The effect is much worse overall security.

No, consumer software outside the App Store is rarely examined by experts who have access to the source code.

This certainty is not a general practice.

Re: Google fined €100M by Italian antitrust over Google Play abuse of dominance

#255

Post by swiley »

zepto wrote: post #254
swiley wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant to mention this in my other reply but can't now because of noprocrast. >You are one of a tiny minority of specialists who can do this. End users in general quite obviously cannot. "Experts" inspecting the source code for apps allowed for some bare minimum security checks. Companies buy out smaller software projects and add spyware to them fairly often (on the iPhone this usually happens via dylibs rather than…

> Companies buy out smaller software projects and add spyware to them fairly often (on the iPhone this usually happens via dylibs rather than the App publisher purposefully doing it.) Yes. and Apple has removed one of the only ways to catch this without an adequate replacement. No - these can be scanned for during app review. > The effect is much worse overall security. No, consumer software outside the App Store is…

I would be willing to bet money that there is more malware on the App Store than in the official Debian Repos.

Re: Google fined €100M by Italian antitrust over Google Play abuse of dominance

#256

Post by buran77 »

jimnotgym wrote: post #253
amacneil wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm. We got the Coinbase iOS app banned for doing this back in the day, when Apple did not allow bitcoin apps (IIRC showing the price was ok, transacting was not). Even after they relaxed their bitcoin restrictions (and calls to the head of app store), they still made us wait out the 12 month ban before reinstating the app. https://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-bitcoin-app-apple-app-stor... https://venturebeat.co…

> Apple did not allow bitcoin apps This is what is wrong with walled gardens, laws should be made by lawmakers, not Apple.

Who said anything about laws? Apple's rules are no different from HN's rules. And for that matter, your house rules. They're arbitrary decisions to the liking of the respective party. They just have to not be against the law themselves. If they are problematic the solution isn't to generically "ban rules" (saying it out loud already hints at the "value" of this proposition) but to change the law to prohibit certain rules.

Re: Google fined €100M by Italian antitrust over Google Play abuse of dominance

#257

Post by kelnos »

asddubs wrote: post #223
amacneil wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm. We got the Coinbase iOS app banned for doing this back in the day, when Apple did not allow bitcoin apps (IIRC showing the price was ok, transacting was not). Even after they relaxed their bitcoin restrictions (and calls to the head of app store), they still made us wait out the 12 month ban before reinstating the app. https://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-bitcoin-app-apple-app-stor... https://venturebeat.co…

I wonder how they confirm this happened. Do they store a video of the review and cross reference on suspicion?

Given that Apple has no oversight at all here, they can do whatever they want. If an app makes it through review, but has forbidden functionality, Apple will just assume that the developer hid that functionality for the review process, and ban them. Doesn't matter if the approval was due to a mistake on the reviewer's part. Apple won't care.

Re: Google fined €100M by Italian antitrust over Google Play abuse of dominance

#258

Post by Nasrudith »

thegrimmest wrote: post #225
oblio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMO, we need some way to declare a company "Big" and apply special rules to them. If those rules are onerous, that might create some organic pressure to split and/or help smaller incumbents compete. Past a point, they should be regulated like an utility.

Doesn't that effectively mean that these companies will become further entrenched and nearly impossible to dislodge from their market positions? A prime example is Google Fibre, who tried to dislodge existing cable/internet companies, and failed primarily because of regulatory entrenchment. Why not allow the market to be more inclusive? This will help create exactly the competitive pressure that we all benefit from.

Their goal isn't a more inclusive or competitive market clearly, it is regulatory entrenchment.

Re: Google fined €100M by Italian antitrust over Google Play abuse of dominance

#259

Post by brutal_chaos_ »

that's like a well off person eating a cheap meal at McDonalds.

Fines are for show (when it comes to corporations). It's high time we start making people within companies responsible for the actions they take.

The company asked you to do something against the law/etc. Report it. Oh, you weren't taught the laws? that's a failure of the company not preparing you for the job. All higher ups should be personally fined or jailed depending on the act, you should be fined or jailed with a reduced sentence (ignorance of the law isn't a defense). And you should be able to sue the company for damages and lack of training.

These are wild ideas, I know, I'm just hoping for more personal responsibility and less hiding behind the company.

Re: Google fined €100M by Italian antitrust over Google Play abuse of dominance

#260

Post by AshamedCaptain »

Lutzb wrote: post #90
dalbasal wrote: post #26

The way antitrust is working in recent years is kind of ridiculous. Google in Europe is becoming a rich case study in antitrust meh. You find that adwords engages in a blatant "monopolistic abuse" in some specific sense. In the Adwords EU case for example, Google was both monopsonising (google search) and monopolising search advertising. But, the actual violations are specific, like exclusivity requirements and other…

The fix is not fines. Threat to split the company.

Force the company to issue more shares and give them to the government.
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