What nobody says about startup moms • Hacker News Board

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#251

Post by strken » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:35 AM UTC

munificent wrote: post #146

whatshisface wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once it's spent, it doesn't really matter how, except insofar as it's left you with something afterwards. Three people standing side by side, one of them partied their whole twenties, the other focused on career, the last had kids. They're all thirty, so that's the same, but one of them clearly is worse off.

Extend your analogy out in time: Three people in their 90s, laying side by side at their deathbeds. One filled their life with friends and experiences, the other did nothing but work, the other raised children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. Now who is the winner and who the loser?

It seems like you're firmly on the side of the one with kids, but outside the rhetoric this is an interesting personal question to ask yourself. It puts the opportunity cost of working into perspective and makes you re-evaluate the importance of your work.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#252

Post by anonfornoreason » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:44 AM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #207

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #13

> Everyone knows kids consume your time. But what people without kids may not realize is the extent to which people with kids want their time to be consumed by them. This is one of the hardest parts of parenthood to communicate to non-parents: Yes, children demand a lot of time and attention. However, as a parent you actually enjoy spending that time with your children. To the author's point: Different people will wa…

This is the line I have more of an issue with: > Like there’s a single standard of interest that women have in being with their kids when, in fact, it varies a lot between women. If you have "little" interest in being with your kids, well, what's motivating you to have them, and is that fair on them?

There’s a large pressure for women to be empowered, have a career and a family. Many of these people might have chosen kids instead of career, or career instead of kids a decade or two ago.

My (stay at home) wife actually occasionally receives condescending remarks from other women who have careers. They are subtle and probably what some people would call micro aggressions, and imply that she is selling herself short by not being part of the new empowered generation.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#253

Post by worik » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:48 AM UTC

legostormtroopr wrote: post #226

worik wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is different. Nobody should work that hard. Not just for the sake of our children, but yes for their sake. But for our sake, for the sake of everybody. We all need to spend more time working on our relationships, smelling the flowers, tasting the tastes. We have one life and one life only. Getting into a competition about how we waste it on commerce is tragic. Some people feel a need to work work…

> Nobody should work that hard. > Some people feel a need to work work work obsessively. IMO that should be viewed as a mental illness and needing treatment. This is a massive value judgement - for those of us who are lucky to legitimately enjoy their career, why should we slow down? Why exactly should someone be coerced to stop what they enjoy because others are are unwilling or unable to perform the same? I'm an am…

I care not about professional sport. If I ruled the world they would not exist. Terrible incentives to incredibly unhealthy behaviour.

I enjoy my career. I almost love my work. If I were to be doing it eighty hours a week, what does that say about me? "Armchair diagnosis" are OK.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#254

Post by barry-cotter » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:50 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #190

worik wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is different. Nobody should work that hard. Not just for the sake of our children, but yes for their sake. But for our sake, for the sake of everybody. We all need to spend more time working on our relationships, smelling the flowers, tasting the tastes. We have one life and one life only. Getting into a competition about how we waste it on commerce is tragic. Some people feel a need to work work…

I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree. It's funny to consider that futurists of the early/mid 20th century expected that automation would take over most jobs and that people would have much more leisure time. If anything, the opposite has happened, with unskilled workers needing to hold more than one job just to get by, and many skilled workers -- especially salaried workers…

> I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree.

Unless worik has a wildly different definition of mental illness from the USA and every other industrialized society he’s advocating for caging and drugging people who have different preferences from him.

Turing killed himself because of how he was treated for his “mental illness”. The Soviets treated many people with antipsychotics for “slow schizophrenia” for opposing Communism.

Not understanding or supporting other people’s preferences is very, very far from calling it a mental illness.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#255

Post by silexia » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

strken wrote: post #251

munificent wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extend your analogy out in time: Three people in their 90s, laying side by side at their deathbeds. One filled their life with friends and experiences, the other did nothing but work, the other raised children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. Now who is the winner and who the loser?

It seems like you're firmly on the side of the one with kids, but outside the rhetoric this is an interesting personal question to ask yourself. It puts the opportunity cost of working into perspective and makes you re-evaluate the importance of your work.

As someone who partied away my teens and early twenties, then spent seven years working 14/7/365 founding a successful company, and finally got married and had 2 kids a couple of years ago, I can tell you that the family is by far the most meaningful and important. I regret the drinking and partying. I wish I had prioritized family sooner.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#256

Post by prawn » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:38 AM UTC

willcipriano wrote: post #17

intergalplan wrote: post #9

> I remember chatting with a woman at a work event one night and asking if she needed to go home soon because of her kids. She replied, “No, I see my kids on weekends.” I couldn’t help but cringe thinking about what it would be like to only see my son on weekends. It seemed horrible! If you work 9-5 (really 8-5 most places) this is basically true anyway. Most of the time you get with them on weekdays may have some qu…

> Ordinary working people don't spend a ton of quality time with their kids during the week. Quality time was a invention of the in-retrospect rather entitled parents of the 1970s who justified their neglect with the idea of "well I don't spend much time with my son but when I do it's quality time!". The truth is kids, particularly young kids just want time. They want to see you around and have you take a active role…

If they're going to have screen time, you can make it a show that they are fully engaged with, but you watch while cooking/cleaning/etc so you can share the experience/discussion with them. My kids got very keen on the survival show Alone which prompts loads of conversations about survival choices, gear, building, the wild environment, etc. And it's not so fast paced that you can't keep up with the season's stories while hanging washing or cooking.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#257

Post by prawn » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:54 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #190

worik wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is different. Nobody should work that hard. Not just for the sake of our children, but yes for their sake. But for our sake, for the sake of everybody. We all need to spend more time working on our relationships, smelling the flowers, tasting the tastes. We have one life and one life only. Getting into a competition about how we waste it on commerce is tragic. Some people feel a need to work work…

I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree. It's funny to consider that futurists of the early/mid 20th century expected that automation would take over most jobs and that people would have much more leisure time. If anything, the opposite has happened, with unskilled workers needing to hold more than one job just to get by, and many skilled workers -- especially salaried workers…

I think you're right in that for many people, life is directionless without work and a schedule handed to them. I find it incredible that there are politicians in their 70s and 80s - especially considering the demands that job would have in terms of travel and public events. Buy a caravan and go on an extended holiday like the stereotypical retiree!

And that there are exceptionally wealthy people still with their nose to the grindstone.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#258

Post by dr-detroit » Tue, May 04, 2021, 3:01 AM UTC

antattack wrote: post #135

"talk honestly about how much harder startups are for those who want to spend a lot of time with their kids. Combining startups and kids is not only difficult, but the difficulty varies" Quote applies equally to men and women.

Any abloo-ablooing about startups only applies to the wealthy elite 2% of people who work in that domain.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#259

Post by paulcole » Tue, May 04, 2021, 3:14 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #248

paulcole wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Healthy kids are a value to society Kids have a massive carbon footprint and are probably the worst thing the average person in a first world country can do to the environment.

> Kids have a massive carbon footprint and are probably the worst thing a person in the first world can do to the environment. This is true in exactly the same broken sense of value “to the environment” that mass murder (especially of the young and rich) is the best thing one can do to the environment.

I don’t think that’s what I’m saying at all.

I’m saying that a new kid is not a no-brainer net gain for society. There is clearly an environmental cost to adding more high-consuming people to the planet. See: the planet.

I never said that killing people is good for the environment. While (possibly) technically true, it’s not an argument I’m making.

My argument: Cars are bad for the environment, so maybe ride a bike.

Your attempt to twist my argument: You said cars are bad for the environment so you are saying to destroy all cars.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#260

Post by TchoBeer » Tue, May 04, 2021, 3:20 AM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #83

TchoBeer wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could just as easily say that quality time is actually a useful metric and as a kid I definitely would've preferred a parent who spends more time with me on the weekends and wasn't "just around". Maybe I could bring a quote from a comedian too. I don't see what any of that would bring to the conversation though.

Research has indicated that there is an immersive quality to just "being there". Part of a relationship is rapport - hard to build that when you're only there 2 days of the week - the bonding will go to the actual caregiver. Taking your kid to school / after-school activities allows for bonding as well.

What research?