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Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

economist.com

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Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#251

Post by giantg2 »

watwut wrote: post #175
giantg2 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would a small city not have to do that big city would? Or do you mean a small town. Also, what hobbies would have to be given up?

It is not fundamental difference between small vs big city. Options, people and culture are different in this city versus different city - no matter which one is larger. Say you liked boardgames with friends. The new city have different people, the play different games, you dont like either new games or new people. Say you liked swimming and the swimming pools in new city are too full or otherwise dont suit you. You…

I can see that somewhat. Maybe you like surfing or salt water fishing and move from the coast to the middle of the country where it just isn't geographically possible, or laws in one area prohibit it (homebrew, guns, etc), etc.

But I don't really see location as a major factor in most hobbies. I grew up as a military dependent and can't remember giving up hobbies just because we moved. You can almost always find ways to continue them.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#252

Post by almost_usual »

iJohnDoe wrote: post #4

Great, you can work from. So you take your California money to middle of nowhere and buy a home for cheap. Renovate it and now it’s awesome. However, that local, who isn’t making California money, that is working a local job and making local money and is hoping to move up in housing for their family is priced out because housing pricing has doubled or even tripled. People that wanted to retire to rural or remote area…

Grew up in rural nowhere Midwest. Home prices are still cheap. Desirable places are expensive and will only get more expensive.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#253

Post by [deleted] »

bluGill wrote: post #184
blunte wrote: post #102

My last home in the US was near a ski resort in Colorado, and it was a fantastic life - incredible mountain biking in the summer, and of course snow skiing in the winter. It was truly heaven. That was before remote work was as common as it is now. If I had to go back to the US, that would be the place. Sure, you miss out on the cool things the city offers; but a couple hours drive and you're in a big city. I found th…

Worth an upvote, but the counter is many people wouldn't do those things. If you sit on your couch watching re-runs every night, you will probably do that in the mountain condo as well. If you get outside the house, then you can find interesting things to do anywhere. In the city that means a different experience than in the mountains, which is different from lake country, which is different from the plains; but ther…

[deleted]

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#254

Post by InTheArena »

blueyes wrote: post #245

I recently returned from a mid-sized town in the Mountain West, and I can confirm that the headline is true. It's a particular kind of boom. A lot of out-of-state money and migrants have poured in to buy houses in places with fewer COVID restrictions and lower prices. That is fundamentally changing the character and politics of those cities. People are buying houses after nothing more than a Zoom tour. The car dealer…

This is also true in Boulder, which has plenty of COVID restrictions. The supply of housing is completely insufficient.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#255

Post by md2020 »

sobellian wrote: post #154
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

Have you lived in any of these places? I grew up in Fairfield County and you seem to greatly exaggerate its dystopian qualities. What's more, industry's flight from the area has nothing to do with folks coming from NYC.

Hello fellow Fairfield County native, there must be literally dozens of us on HN!

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#256

Post by seanmcdirmid »

_2d30 wrote: post #163
elefanten wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Trivial. “ It has been estimated that between 1975 and 2000 a total of more than US$100bn has been invested in water supply and sanitation, and that a further US$130bn will be needed between 2002 and 2022, corresponding to US$6.5 billion per year or more than US$200 per capita and year.[2] This level of investment in water per capita is among the highest in the world, higher than in the US, the UK or Germany, du…

I mean, yeah clearly? Your own source for what is nearly the worst case in the world is ongoing investment of “US$200 per capita and year”. Look at how much the home values have increased! Do you really think that’s not trivially extractable from property taxes?? That’s IF it’s as bad as building megacities in the middle of literal deserts which obviously a place like Bozeman is NOT. You’re throwing your hands up exa…

Over the course of 10 or 20 years, you can build out the infrastructure to support the previous boom (well, it’s harder in Montana since they are more anti-tax). But in the course of 1 or 2 years? And if that boom turns into a bust before you can get the infrastructure projects going?

Urban planning is useful for a reason. Building housing is far from effective on its own, and not all areas can support the same densities (in the Middle East, they have to be really careful about where they grow). And even if you “win”, the result is a more livable city that attracts even more people, leading to price increases nonetheless.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#257

Post by [deleted] »

bedhead wrote: post #223
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

Last year I moved from a top 3 city to a small mountain town in Colorado. In my experience, your hostility is extremely common in small towns that have big seasonal influxes. I continue to be amazed by the overt disdain long-time locals have for second home owners and relatively newer full-time residents. The one constant is: "Everything was great until shortly after I relocated here and you people moved in." A week…

[deleted]

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#258

Post by dogman144 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #120
eysquared wrote: post #24

There seems to be a lot of negativity in the comments so far. Is this not the dream that is often touted on hacker news? Work at a FAANG and "retire" somewhere more affordable? I'm personally doing just this. I was lucky enough to land a good job out of college, buy a house in a desired area, and see it appreciate in the last 10 years. This increase plus the birth of my kids left me wondering if there wasn't a better…

You're seeing negativity because it's getting harder and harder to deny that this "dream" involves the locals getting screwed when tech monopoly money turns their local economy upside down. Sure the guy who had the foresight to start a brewery wins but everyone else loses. You know what the end game of this looks like? It looks like Vail CO, Cape Cod MA, coastal Long Island and CT, the Hamptons, wealthy retirement ar…

I guess the counterpoint is what does someone, who is uncomfortable about this, think the urban centers they lived in prior to the moves used to be like?

Urban poor or rural poor, techies/finance/etc displace them all the same.

The missing link here is, IMO, community involvement. Don’t become a ghost resident jacking up rents. Do join a community board, PTA, etc. Become an active stakeholder and learn about and contribute to wherever you live.

Locals, urban or rural, aren’t pissed only about rising rents or home prices, but also millennial wealth moving in and not giving a f about what’s already there.

Empathy and demonstrating community interest towards the locals goes so far but that seems so low on the problem population’s radar as an easy solution.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#259

Post by leetcrew »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #229
leetcrew wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in my social circle, the number one reason why families leave the city is the abysmal public school system. it's not a big deal to the wealthier families, since they can just send their children to private schools. middle income families usually can't afford that, but they can afford to hop over the county line and send their children to the very good public schools out there. at least in my area, I wouldn't say the…

It’s not the school system that is abysmal, it’s people not wanting their kids to mingle with kids from lower income/less wealthy families. Cities might have various socioeconomic classes living near each other, and so the schools have a more mixed population. Suburbs can restrict their schools to those that can afford to live there, so those public schools can have very few kids from lower socioeconomic classes, and…

the city school system is indeed abysmal by pretty much any metric you could choose to evaluate (test scores, high school graduation rate, violent incidents, odds of imprisonment, etc).

I'm familiar with the argument that the cohort of students matters more than the quality of instruction. in fact, that is what I'm getting at here. the city has an explicit policy of mixing students from different backgrounds across the school system, the goal being to break the cycle of poor students going to poor schools and staying poor. it's a good goal, but it seems kinda pointless when all the students they are trying to mix them with are fleeing to the county.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#260

Post by avidphantasm »

hoka-one-one wrote: post #42
eysquared wrote: post #24

There seems to be a lot of negativity in the comments so far. Is this not the dream that is often touted on hacker news? Work at a FAANG and "retire" somewhere more affordable? I'm personally doing just this. I was lucky enough to land a good job out of college, buy a house in a desired area, and see it appreciate in the last 10 years. This increase plus the birth of my kids left me wondering if there wasn't a better…

Your kids all else equal will be outsprinted by kids who live in more competitive cities. You can decide you don't care about any of that, but understand that type of that decision will ripple through to future generations, e.g. your grandkids will be less educated. The irony is that most educated people living in small towns want to get out, and a generation or two after they do they want to go back. Will the cycle…

Have you heard of New England? Lots of educated people in small towns, and want to be there.
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