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Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

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Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#251

Post by DangerousPie »

yladiz wrote: post #231
DangerousPie wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the opposite. The rent cap (at least in the way it was implemented) achieved nothing to solve the problems that exist in the Berlin rental market. It led to a huge decrease in rental supply. Yes, rent may have been cheap for the few people who managed to get a place, but it was a lottery with dozens of applicants for each flat. This mismatch of supply and demand is exactly the kind of thing that would be…

> It led to a huge decrease in rental supply. This was artificial though, as landlords were waiting to know the outcome of this ruling. It's not like the apartments just vanished from existence.

Sure, but I don't think it would have gone back to 100% if this law hadn't been overturned, since the law made it much more attractive to keep a property empty in order to sell it at some point.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#252

Post by dbspin »

oleganza wrote: post #40
adrianN wrote: post #11

I wish Berlin would just build more housing instead. For example when I cross the street there is a supermarket. It's a single story building with a huge parking lot around it. Why not make it a multistory building with apartments on top of the supermarket and skip the parking space or put it underground? Why does the city give out building permits for such buildings? There could easily be room for thirty families on…

My impression of Berlin (living there for the last 2 years) is that there's plenty of space, plenty of new housing already built and plenty of new construction still going. SF, NY, Paris and London are way more crowded and under-housed in comparison. Shitty one-story supermarkets are really just a sign of abundance of space and not enough demand (yet). Among big European cities the rent seems low. You can buy an supe…

Not enough demand for high priced apartments != not enough demand for affordable accommodation. In fact, they're literally in opposition.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#253

Post by DangerousPie »

qayxc wrote: post #243
DangerousPie wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the opposite. The rent cap (at least in the way it was implemented) achieved nothing to solve the problems that exist in the Berlin rental market. It led to a huge decrease in rental supply. Yes, rent may have been cheap for the few people who managed to get a place, but it was a lottery with dozens of applicants for each flat. This mismatch of supply and demand is exactly the kind of thing that would be…

> If you are convinced that this will happen in your city maybe now would be a great time to buy a place? Did you miss the part were they explained they can't do it because they only have a temporary assignment? This sounds a lot like "just be rich". The reality is that a lot of people simply cannot afford to just "buy a place". According to some statistics [0], 40% of Americans (i.e. a "rich" country), are just one…

Yeah, that comment was admittedly a bit flippant. But I would say that OP can't expect to have the flexibility and low capital requirements of renting but get the benefits of stability and profiting from price increases that a property owner would have. There are sacrifices in terms of work and flexibility (and location) that people make because they want to buy their property.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#254

Post by UncleSlacky »

crumbshot wrote: post #199
EdwinLarkin wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the opposite actually.Increase capitalism and reduce government control and you get more housing.

That's not how it turned out in the UK. As this graph illustrates, when the local government authorities were prohibited from building more housing, from the 1980s onwards, the private sector didn't pick up any of the slack: https://i.stack.imgur.com/MmJ5N.png The capitalists instead decided to optimize for steadily increasing the price of housing by restricting supply, so these are now primarily seen as an investmen…

> an investment with nearly-guaranteed returns, rather than places for people to live.

Or "magic coin-shitting machines", as Charlie Brooker so pithily put it.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#255

Post by qayxc »

Darmody wrote: post #90
unixhero wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, same in my country. I was able to buy a home recently, but my method of accumulating capital enough is just about mission impossible for normal peeps. It is really unfair. Government regulation and control of housing prices is the solution.

If it is the solution, why doesn't it work wherever they have tried?

Because people are good at gaming the system.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#256

Post by DangerousPie »

hawos wrote: post #244
DangerousPie wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the opposite. The rent cap (at least in the way it was implemented) achieved nothing to solve the problems that exist in the Berlin rental market. It led to a huge decrease in rental supply. Yes, rent may have been cheap for the few people who managed to get a place, but it was a lottery with dozens of applicants for each flat. This mismatch of supply and demand is exactly the kind of thing that would be…

There are dozens of appicants for each flat anyway, with or without the cap. Not everyone can just buy a place, if rents keep increasing only rich people will be able to afford living in the city, you need a lot of non-rich people to actually run the city though: cashiers, nurses, teachers, firefighters etc. It's not that easy.

I know the market isn't perfect, but in theory if lowly paid workers can't afford to live in the city anymore they'll start looking for jobs elsewhere, which will force their employers to raise wages.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#257

Post by yokaze »

dgellow wrote: post #62
adrianN wrote: post #11

I wish Berlin would just build more housing instead. For example when I cross the street there is a supermarket. It's a single story building with a huge parking lot around it. Why not make it a multistory building with apartments on top of the supermarket and skip the parking space or put it underground? Why does the city give out building permits for such buildings? There could easily be room for thirty families on…

The amount of unused space is Berlin is just so massive. Even in Friedrichstraße, which is a hype neighborhood with great amount of activity, you have hundreds of square meters completely unused, with wild plants growing around and random waste accumulating. From what I understand it is very difficult to do something with that space, either because people refuse to sell or because of bureaucratic red tape.

> Even in Friedrichstraße, which is a hype neighborhood with great amount of activity, you have hundreds of square meters completely unused, with wild plants growing around and random waste accumulating.

Two things: I think you put too much value to Friedrichstraße, and likely Mitte in general. It is the physical and historic city centre, but that doesn't have the same meaning as it has in other cities.

Second, in many parts in East-Berlin, you have a unclear ownership of houses and ground with competing claims. People have been disowned by the Nazis, Soviets, or by the GDR. The families have gone into diaspora and are partly spread over the world. Random people may have moved in and layed their own claim.

The ownership is unclear and spread. And it is a battle to lay claim to your _part_ of ownership. The ground is gaining worth over time. All ingredients, which do not expedite the development of land.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#258

Post by Tenoke »

durnygbur wrote: post #209
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good old gentrification... "Look at that hip area with the art students working as baristas, let's live there.". A few years later, the neighborhood cafe is just full of tech workers coding the frontend framework for the next food delivery app and you wonder where the soul went.

You hate us cause you ain't us. No worries we don't pass through the apartment applicant selection either. Now you need to be young attractive woman with a partner, Western sounding names and surnames, both employed with high salary. All documented.

What? Non-Germans have it much harder finding a place here even if their names are western.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#259

Post by the_gipsy »

adrianN wrote: post #11

I wish Berlin would just build more housing instead. For example when I cross the street there is a supermarket. It's a single story building with a huge parking lot around it. Why not make it a multistory building with apartments on top of the supermarket and skip the parking space or put it underground? Why does the city give out building permits for such buildings? There could easily be room for thirty families on…

Paradoxically, more housing also increases rents. More citizens in the city leads to higher salaries, attracting even more citizens that need more housing...

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#260

Post by Tenoke »

ewindal wrote: post #242
durnygbur wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 80k+ salaries. Last time I intensively job searched in Berlin there was a clear salary ceiling at 70-75k EUR annually for software roles.

Amazon Berlin has >€80k for entry level roles.

FAANG typically pay more than everyone else.

Also sites like glassdoor report 70k for the average Berlin Amazon Software Engineer Salary.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Amazon-Software-Development...

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