'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#251

Post by runarberg » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 1:04 AM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #235

tsdlts wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare is consistently ranked as a top 2 priority amongst Americans polled and has over 70% support. It even have majority support amongst republican voters. This is a false equivalency.

I think that is generally true- though there is great disagreement over the implementation. Healthcare has 70% just in general? So is that public option, Medicare for All, or single payer? What does the support for these items look like when broken down?

I think it is a bit unfair to ask for a specific implementation detail on policy which the general population overwhelmingly supports. You can always arbitrarily make a policy look less popular by taking only the subset of the general population that supports a specific implementation.

An example: Say 90% of the people of Madeupistan supports some sort of increased autonomy from the Roman empire (which just became a democracy after 2000 years of imperial rule). But a disingenuous pollster wants to make it look like the support isn’t that great. So instead they will point to the fact that only about 40% of the population supports independence. This is ignoring the fact that 30% of the population want something similar to home rule, and 20% want to be in a federation with neighboring states.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#252

Post by woutr_be » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 2:39 AM UTC

logotype wrote: post #33

k_sze wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in HK. 1.7M-2M is a really large exaggeration.

It is not an exaggeration. I was there, joining several protests including the CHRF 2M protest. In addition, the police estimates is always wrong (of course they want the numbers to be as low as possible). One example was a protest around Victoria Park. According to “official police figures” it was 180k attending - but they only counted the people in the limited Victoria Park square, it was completely PACKED. They di…

I was also there, but in my opinion 1.7M was an exaggeration. Don’t get me wrong, there were A LOT of people, the whole area from Victoria Park to Tamar Park was packed with people. There was also a constant flow of people coming in from North Point, a good 20 minute walk to the starting point.

Police estimates were definitely wrong, but the estimates from organisers are also always exaggerated, for the same reasons you mentioned the police estimates are wrong.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#253

Post by 02D2CFA4 » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

kenneth wrote: post #152

FabHK wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree (but don't think your comment deserves oblivion). The HK police force was riddled with corruption in the past (1940s to 1970s), but then (after the creation in 1974 of the Independent Commission Against Corruption) turned around and became highly professional, trusted, and respected, I'd say ("Asia's finest"). However, with the 2014 umbrella movement, they were necessarily pitted against the pro-democracy…

I have to deal with the police on an almost daily basis in the last couple years. They've gotten infinitely worse… they're unnecessarily aggressive, confrontational, and unreasonable. Everyone (almost) hates them here, with good reason. They've basically decided that the public is their enemy and their mission is no longer to protect but to harass. (I live in HK)

I also live in HK, and agree with everything you say. But I would change the harass to control. Disagreement and disrespect is what triggers them most. It reminds me of police in the US cities. Grandparent says it's just like they were in the 60s again.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#254

Post by dang » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 3:13 AM UTC

newbie578 wrote: post #28

Let’s see how long it takes until the brigade arrives and starts saying how America is bad, and China does no wrong. :)

Flamewar comments like this will get you banned here, regardless of which side you're flaming for or against, or what about. They make discussion reliably terrible, such as in the thread below. No more of this please. You also broke the site guidelines egregiously in other ways. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules.

Edit: we've had to warn you about this repeatedly in the past. If you continue to abuse the site like this we will have to ban you, so please fix this.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#255

Post by dang » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 3:17 AM UTC

chinathrow1029 wrote: post #239

dang wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single-purpose accounts aren't allowed on HN and nationalistic flamewar isn't welcome either. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

IMO in this particular post, I was simply providing direct evidence refuting the claim that Winnie the Pooh is banned in China and not engaging in a nationalistic flamewar. I can point out many examples of nationalistic, flamewar-instigating posts in this thread (such as the top comment) far more deserving (again, IMO) of reprimand than my little comment. For instance: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26570631 ht…

The issue in this case is that you created an account specifically to get involved in flamewars about China. That's an abuse of HN regardless of which side you're on.

I don't think most of the comments you listed were egregious. The last three, sure - but at least one of those accounts is already banned, and in any case, if posts are flagged/dead then they're already marked as unacceptable to this community, meaning the immune system is functioning. I'm not sure what more you can ask than that, and it certainly doesn't justify making things worse.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#256

Post by alasdair_ » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 3:54 AM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #102

Der_Einzige wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. The people of Myanmar have been sharing lots and lots of videos and media showing china has sent police officers and soldiers to the military government to keep order. It's totally in the CCP playbook to replace local police with their own cadres.

Again, complete hearsay that China is supporting the military coup. They had good relations with incumbent government due to the belt and road initiative.

> They had good relations with incumbent government due to the belt and road initiative.

The incumbent government of Myanmar WAS the military, just in a less overt fashion. They were the ones in charge of almost everything, the main change is now they don’t have a facade of democracy.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#257

Post by stickfigure » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 4:09 AM UTC

toiletfuneral wrote: post #141

gonehome wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

which party do I vote for if I want to stop US imperialism? which party do I vote for if I want MFA? Its not the Republicans, and its definitely not the Democrats. Its no conspiracy theory to say the duopoly shuts down a lot of issues from being ever being addressed

> which party do I vote for if I want...

Congratulations, Citizen! You have discovered that you live in a democracy, and you hold a minority viewpoint. This is a feature of the system, not a bug. The benefit is: There are countless other minority viewpoints (some of which involve your immediate execution) that will also not be automatically scheduled for implementation.

The solution here is to start campaigning! Not for political office, you've got little chance of that - but rather to shift the public consciousness so that the entire body politic is more sympathetic to your viewpoint. Your political opponent is the Overton Window.

Good luck, Citizen.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#258

Post by sudosysgen » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 4:23 AM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #257

toiletfuneral wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which party do I vote for if I want to stop US imperialism? which party do I vote for if I want MFA? Its not the Republicans, and its definitely not the Democrats. Its no conspiracy theory to say the duopoly shuts down a lot of issues from being ever being addressed

> which party do I vote for if I want... Congratulations, Citizen! You have discovered that you live in a democracy, and you hold a minority viewpoint. This is a feature of the system, not a bug. The benefit is: There are countless other minority viewpoints (some of which involve your immediate execution) that will also not be automatically scheduled for implementation. The solution here is to start campaigning! Not…

The political opponent isn't the Overton Window.

It's the 2-party system and the ratchet effect.

No matter how the population feels on a particular issue, as long as the elites of both parties disagree, there is no way for it to be implemented. A wedge issue will be substituted and strategic voting will ensure compliance.

Then, the issue will be substituted in the public discourse with a choice between the status-quo and something even worse, or something marginaly better and something significantly worse.

In the end, there is no way to campaing as long as you have both political institutions against you.

In the United States, there is no statistically significant correlation between the sympathy of the "body politic", if you take that to be the mass of voters, and actual policy[0].

Put simply, your rationalization is a feel-good narrative. And that's not even considering media capture, manufactured consent, ideological indoctrination through cultural hegemony, etc...

[0]: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#259

Post by sudosysgen » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #235

tsdlts wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare is consistently ranked as a top 2 priority amongst Americans polled and has over 70% support. It even have majority support amongst republican voters. This is a false equivalency.

I think that is generally true- though there is great disagreement over the implementation. Healthcare has 70% just in general? So is that public option, Medicare for All, or single payer? What does the support for these items look like when broken down?

There is over 70% support specifically for Medicare For All : https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-pol...

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#260

Post by hker » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 4:31 AM UTC

Context_free wrote: post #18

rado wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberal yes. But they insist on "democracy" which is ridiculous, as it didn't happen under the British. They "almost" instated it shortly before the handover, but didn't succeed for some reason. Extremely amusing indeed. And HK people's lives were almost unbearable under the tycoons' feudalism, which has nothing to do with Beijing.

In 1967 under the British, dozens of Chinese protesting against British rule and for representation were killed in Hong Kong.

> In 1967 under the British, dozens of Chinese protesting against British rule and for representation were killed in Hong Kong.

This comment is context free: missing critical historical contexts (if not outright misleading).

1967 was at the height of the Cultural Revolution in China, when it was spreading to Hong Kong [1], Macau [2], and elsewhere.

Notably, the local communists (CCP supporters) planted roadside bombs during the 1967 Riots [1], causing 15 deaths and 800+ injuries in Hong Kong.

The Wikipedia articles [1][2] have more details.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Hong_Kong_riots

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-3_incident