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PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

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Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#251

Post by senux »

wwarner wrote: post #20

I personally think that the effort to create open source phones is the single most important technology project going on out there. We have open source browsers, we have open source social apps, but we definitely do not have open source phones. Phones that can be truly owned and controlled by users will reshape the privacy discourse, from one of complaining and legal coercion, to one of choices and markets.

This is not a stab at you or your comment. I think your message is valid and I agree with it. However, I do believe there's a common misconception in here that needs to be highlighted if hoped to be fixed.

> We have open source browsers, we have open source social > apps, but we definitely do not have open source phones. > Phones that can be truly owned and controlled by users > will reshape the privacy discourse, from one of > complaining and >legal coercion, to one of choices and > markets.

What you are talking about in the text above is not delivered by Open Source, which is just a practical advantage. The values you mentioned are fought for by the Free/Libre Software community [0].

I recommend to anyone interested in this topic (e.g. the differences between Libre and Open Source software), read more about the GNU project as a starter [1].

As a disclaimer, I'm by no means an expert on this topic which is another reason to follow the links below.

[0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point....

[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#252

Post by danShumway »

cesarb wrote: post #133
danShumway wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's terrifying, and I deeply sympathize, but it seems like a government problem more than an app ecosystem or market problem? It's not just that Linux isn't going to break the app store duopoly in your case, nobody is going to, because your government is effectively reinforcing that behavior. Forcing people to install root certificates on their devices is a problem on a whole 'nother level over just commercial inc…

I think you mixed two different things; what requires the authentication software is the banks, not the government. The government isn't forcing anyone to install the ICP-Brasil root certificates; if you don't, the government websites will just show as untrusted in the browser (since they're signed by one of the CAs which chain to the ICP-Brasil root), but other than that they should work the same. Things might be di…

It's a good point, but still not something that I think that can be solved by opening up app stores.

My issue isn't that those apps aren't available for Linux. Even if they were available for Linux I wouldn't install a bank app with those permissions. I wouldn't install that on my primary Android phone (I guess there's a good likelyhood I couldn't, since I run rooted Android).

I'm not sure what I would do in that position. Maybe get a separate phone just for banking? I don't know, it's really tough. I sympathize.

But yeah, the Pinephone is not going to solve that problem, banks would need to move over to open standards for authentication through apps that are trustworthy. Just releasing their apps for a smartphone wouldn't be enough. At least any "security software" that can run on desktop Linux can also be run on your phone, assuming it doesn't freak out over the hardware, and assuming you're willing to tolerate it.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#253

Post by e12e »

int_19h wrote: post #208
swiley wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying it's ok to run base stations in that band without a license? A quick search isn't showing me much.

CBRS is a 3.5 GHz band that's specifically designated for shared use. Priority licensing is available, but in places where there are no licensees or other priority users for a particular channel, it is available for general use on a first-come-first-serve basis, with explicit reservation (over the internet). This does not require a license for the operator.

Do regular phones (android, iPhone) typically support this band?

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#254

Post by seba_dos1 »

megous wrote: post #235
seba_dos1 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, the biggest difference comes from RAM speed, which Librem 5 has almost three times as fast as PinePhone. Then, the CPU is clocked at 1.3x the speed and it has twice the L2 cache. eMMC is faster too. The difference in every day usage is easily noticeable even just by how fast applications start and, indeed, the GPU performance difference is drastic: https://social.librem.one/@dos/104767475144787918 Recent…

Startup times will probably change quite a lot for apps that use the GPU. I've noticed some performance work being done recently around startup times.

Sure - there's a lot that can be done there; but that will also make it faster on L5 :)

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#255

Post by marcus_holmes »

anoncake wrote: post #149
viro wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean labor is directed towards actions that produce more value than simply the labor put into them. Odd, its like you think that's a bad thing.

That is literally the opposite of what I wrote.

I think this comes down to whether you agree that money == value, and that value == utility (i.e. that people will pay for things that they find useful)

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#256

Post by marcus_holmes »

jascii wrote: post #195
cubano wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you cannot possibly be postulating that profitable activities can never be considered useful, are you?

I do not see OP stating that "useful" and "profitable" are mutually exclusive. I think it is widely understood that there is "usefulness" that is not satisfied by profit driven organisations, that is why we have non-profits and public institutions.

Call me cynical, but most non-profits seem to be more interested in paying salaries and fundraising than in the actual thing they're supposed to be "about".

And public institutions may serve a useful function, but again seem to be mostly about civil service powerbroking and providing extremely safe employment.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#257

Post by [deleted] »

megous wrote: post #244
simfree wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but with the Quectel EC25 modem used the blobs are isolated on the modem itself, your device does not need to load any binary blobs to bring up a usable cellular connection.

The point is that you can't tinker with the modem, fix issues, implement new features, or remove misfeatures introduced by Quectel, if you have to use the blob. Where the blob is running is maybe only relevant to how much control it has over the rest of the system.

[deleted]

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#258

Post by imwillofficial »

ddevault wrote: post #123
jordache wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "work with the community to merge your software into the repo" model is much better for things that actually help people. So you ratchet up the friction for entry, that helps devs? Say what you want about the app store, but across all the devs for iOS, how many would go through the trouble of self distributing their product? Marketing, infrastructure, payment system etc... ? The app store is a tremendously low…

The benefits go both ways: the community also reaches out to the developers. A lot of software is added to repos without any input from the devs. The plain truth of the matter is that commercial app stores are malware distributors, and community repositories are not. The commercial app store model does not work, at least not for the user. Also: not all software is commercial, and not everyone wants their phones comme…

“ The plain truth of the matter is that commercial app stores are malware distributors, and community repositories are not.”

Are you smoking crack?

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#259

Post by rorykoehler »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #238
simonh wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root problem is that redistributive systems are inherently coercive. If your system has money and commerce of any kind, more money will end up in some hands than others. I'm not making a fundamental judgement on this, all laws are coercive in some sense, capitalist systems often have redistributive features, taxes and such. However redistribution in the extreme and complete sense in communism is often characteris…

While I agree with the sentiment of your post, you seem to be conflating capitalism with what countries you believe to be capitalist implement. Most countries I can think of implement a mix of capitalism and socialism. Some features are capitalism, some are features of socialism. Coercion and taxation are not capitalism, taxation is just theft operated by the state. I consider the "no true scotsman" argument for comm…

Anarcho-capitalism will fail for the same reasons you stated communism will fail. 5% of people have psychopathic personality traits. For society that is like someone shitting in the bath water. We’ll end up looking like a narco-state.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#260

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

danShumway wrote: post #81
amelius wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To take one example: the interaction with your bank goes through a web-browser, I suppose? You probably need a special device for 2FA? In most bank apps, you can simply log in using a PIN-code and do things like check your balance, make small wire transfers, and make payments in stores through NFC. Doing these things in a web-browser on a mobile phone with a separate 2FA device is much more cumbersome. (I use Linux e…

:shrug: I don't have a bank app installed on my phone right now. And there are absolutely going to be Open Source 2FA apps being built for Pinephone, so I'm good there. Currently, I don't use a banking app because I don't trust my bank to have that level of access to my phone with a proprietary app, and because my bank's app isn't particularly good in the first place. So I'm not really losing out by using Pinephone.…

The PinePhone is just like an ordinary desktop Linux computer in the sense that there is a terminal right there, and you can run any shell-based apps you want. That means that instead of waiting for NewPipe to be ported, you could just use youtube-dl.
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