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The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

bbc.com

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Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#251

Post by Verdex »

elliekelly wrote: post #210
Verdex wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the things that I like about the expanse series. When people first start moving out to alien ecosystems, they specifically go into how alien viruses etc are probably not going to be a problem. The metaphor they use is "mining" basically. Where they're not concerned that people will get infected, but they're concerned that some organism will find out that people are full of some resource that the organi…

I’ve never heard of the Expanse series but your mining comment is both terrifying and intriguing! DuckDuckGo tells me it’s both a series of novels and a Syfy TV series - I’m curious which one (or perhaps both?) you’re referring to so I can add it to my read and/or watch list.

I prefer the books but the episodes I saw were all really good. I think I watched to seasson 3.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#252

Post by timr »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #222
timr wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you keep saying these measures have done nothing to rhinovirus? Because they haven't. > The link you've shared does not support that. It shows relative percentages - and you're confusing that for absolute infection counts. I am not confusing it. It shows you the percentage of samples they test that come up positive for rhinovirus (and other things. They test for all of the things listed, in parallel.) Influe…

Again, you're confusing percentages. To use some simplified numbers to explain it - consider that normally 100,000 people are infected with some form of respiratory virus on a daily, basis and 20% of those are rhinoviruses, then that means there are 20,000 daily rhinovirus infections. And let's also say that strains of influenza are another 20% and 20,000/day. Now what is happening, is in a covid world, due to masks…

I am not "confusing percentages". You (now) agree with me on what the data says, you just don't like how it fits in with your theory.

> Now what is happening, is in a covid world, due to masks and distancing, the number of people infected on a daily basis drops from 100,000 to 10,000. Rhinoviruses are sill 20% of that, but they are now down to 2,000....Influenza drops down to only 2% so only 200 cases daily. Masks and distancing have an even more drastic effect in influenza.

Yes, I understand your hypothesis: masks make influenza go down to almost 0, but somehow rhinovirus ends up at exactly the same percentage as it was before. In other words: masks work exceptionally well for flu, don't work at all for rhinovirus.

This is a theory. It is...implausible...but if you want to believe it explains the patterns in the data, you're certainly welcome to do so.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#253

Post by michaelmrose »

gher-shyu3i wrote: post #207
zuminator wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the universe "began" at t=0, and life began at, let's call it t=100, then all we need is access to t=99, not all the way back to the beginning. I'm not saying that's actually achievable, I'm just saying your argument is not persuasive.

I gave it as an example to close the debate fully, because I'm aware of this line of arguing. The point remains, (1) life will not be possible without the universe, (2) the universe exists, and (3) we do not have access to the knowledge about how the universe was created, nor before it was created.

Lets go to Wile E. Coyote for this one.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e2/f0/16/e2f0165777598a13c246...

Anvils would not be possible without the universe ergo we cannot possible predict solely on our knowledge of Warner Brothers physics and prior plot lines that the anvil trap he is laying will fall on his own head comically flattening him yet somehow leaving him alive and ready to chase the road runner again in the next sketch.

Our models don't capture every aspect of the world but good models capture enough to make increasingly good predictions about the past and future and the more we test them and winnow out the bad we approach but can never achieve perfection. The origin of life isn't inherently any different than the evolution of the continents, the planets, or the tree of life over the eons. No fundamental barrier stands in the way of our understanding. You didn't "close the debate fully". Nobody who didn't start out agreeing with you now does and its because they understand things you do not.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#254

Post by michaelmrose »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #213
michaelmrose wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't understand how abiogenesis happened exactly but we do know that electricity from lightning is liable to be able to produce amino acids from simpler chemicals and we have theories as to how the early earth would have been amenable to such formation in a way the current earth is not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment Given the history of shamanistic figures explaining the natural wor…

This is interesting, but it also says nothing about fine-tuning, which is likely outside the realms of the scientific method.

Why is it outside of the scientific method? Speculate based on the other things we know about the universe, devise way of test theory, rinse repeat.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#255

Post by michaelmrose »

gher-shyu3i wrote: post #244
michaelmrose wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that definition science is entirely unreal because we can't reproduce an apple pie from scratch without first creating the universe. We explore geology including theories about the formation of the earth without making new planets. What is supposed to be reproducible is the act of collecting and processing data to ensure that your conclusion isn't based on error, falsehood, or happenstance. What he is promoting is…

Your argument is a straw man.

Instead of throwing out the names of logical fallacies as if they applied to this argument please explain how this is a straw man?

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#256

Post by charwalker »

WalterBright wrote: post #245
mrkstu wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Viruses have evolved to hijack DNA- I'd find it highly unlikely a truly alien biology would be susceptible to earth viruses. Maybe some truly primitive precursor virus may have been able to, but I'd think any of those would be long gone.

But will the alien viruses attack us?

If they operate on a chemical/biological structure that humans have then yes. Just nobody go designing viruses for hypothetical aliens, ok?

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#257

Post by techrat »

hanche wrote: post #190
techrat wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the theory of gravity still something to be considered only a theory?

A theory, yes. Those who say “only a theory” tend to confuse theory with hypothesis , which is much looser. A theory is a coherent set of principles serving to explain a range of phenomena. Emphasis on coherent , meaning not only internally consistent, but also consistent with related knowledge. The road from hypothesis to theory can be long and tortuous.

My question was meant to be rhetorical in response to the OP.

We have many things labelled to be a theory that are complete enough to be acceptable answers while still being considered relatively incoherent or insufficient to science.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#258

Post by mensetmanusman »

michaelmrose wrote: post #254
mensetmanusman wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting, but it also says nothing about fine-tuning, which is likely outside the realms of the scientific method.

Why is it outside of the scientific method? Speculate based on the other things we know about the universe, devise way of test theory, rinse repeat.

By definition, you can propose theories that are untestable. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/popper/

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#259

Post by marshmallow_12 »

michaelmrose wrote: post #255
gher-shyu3i wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is a straw man.

Instead of throwing out the names of logical fallacies as if they applied to this argument please explain how this is a straw man?

You are projecting your own understanding of how and what religion is, and then attacking it. That is a straw man

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#260

Post by hinkley »

mrkramer wrote: post #139
hinkley wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can choose to move away (although then you might have to deal with lightning and tornadoes and droughts), or you can choose to live in areas with better code compliance. Those are still in your control.

Yea I or you should evaluate risk factors but there is always a degree of randomness involved. There is no place on Earth you are 100% safe from natural disasters.

Yep, and that’s why I suggested things you can do in place, like new construction.
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