How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#251

Post by runawaybottle » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 1:38 AM UTC

overscore wrote: post #238

NotPavlovsDog wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm now trying to decide whether I should attempt a medical degree to become a doctor Have you reviewed how much sleep deprivation would be involved in the path towards being a doctor? It differs depending on the path, but middle-age and lack of sleep may be very hard (source: have multiple surgeons in my near circle). But it is very specific to the path you pick, of course. I am currently trying to see if I can fin…

> Have you reviewed how much sleep deprivation would be involved in the path towards being a doctor? It differs depending on the path, but middle-age and lack of sleep may be very hard (source: have multiple surgeons in my near circle). But it is very specific to the path you pick, of course. Yes, I have. My first career (maybe employment path) was as an enlisted soldier. It took some modification of sleeping pattern…

Why are we pretending they are not gonna all be jacked up on Adderall?

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#252

Post by wwww4all » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 1:41 AM UTC

sircastor wrote: post #206

wwww4all wrote: post #108

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I've been wrangling software bytes for a while and I am pragmatic about the business. Software engineering is extremely difficult. High performance engineers are rare and valuable. Some times, they become jaded and burn out. This is my career and my craft, so I'm inclined to ride the waves and trends in software engineering. Negotiate for above average salary while maintaining my tech stack and producing at above ave…

> Switch jobs regularly and negotiate hard for salary and levels. I’ve been at my current role for almost 7 years. It doesn’t pay nearly what I could be making elsewhere. I’ve interviewed and been offered better money, but it means giving up the kind of work I do now for something less interesting. I’ve turned down those offers and stuck where I am, even though it means less money. As my wife told me when we were tal…

There’s a phrase I heard while back, I don’t live to work, I work to live.

High performance software engineers negotiate for higher salary and the type of work environment and type of projects. They work to live by taking control over their salary and project assignments.

Sometimes, they have to work on less interesting projects. They deliver solutions. At the same time, they regularly have conversations on other more interesting projects. Make sure they line up more interesting projects in the roadmap.

There’s more risk in stagnating position than taking control and regularly switching jobs for higher salary and more interesting projects.

There are significantly more software engineering problems than people that can deliver solutions. High performance software engineers can have their cake and eat it too.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#253

Post by jariel » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 1:44 AM UTC

True, but I'm extremely wary of it and think it leads to magical thinking and bad outcomes.

I prefer to take the opposite view: programming is work - it's mostly just 'building something' much like a Carpenter who has to know a lot of things, makes plans based off of experience, but at the same time will innevitably have to pivot in the face of those plans.

Any job done by a carpenter depends almost entirely on the quality, experience and workmanship of the carpenters and not much else. The newest, fanciest tools will not make good work. Moreover, it's very easy to cut corners if you want as the methods can be opaque to users.

CRUD apps built by experience teams are practically like construction sites.

I don't want romanticized attachment to work, rather, a kind of civil obligation to doing a good job.

All of that said, there's a lot in Software that is more academic, and does require intellectual chops and left-field thinking, experimentation etc. and you have to have that as well.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#254

Post by reaperducer » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 1:45 AM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #251

overscore wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you reviewed how much sleep deprivation would be involved in the path towards being a doctor? It differs depending on the path, but middle-age and lack of sleep may be very hard (source: have multiple surgeons in my near circle). But it is very specific to the path you pick, of course. Yes, I have. My first career (maybe employment path) was as an enlisted soldier. It took some modification of sleeping pattern…

Why are we pretending they are not gonna all be jacked up on Adderall?

Because real life isn't like a YouTube video.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#255

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 1:51 AM UTC

wwww4all wrote: post #245

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you demonstrate high performance and solution delivery, age becomes less of an issue. Never even comes up. Like I said, I've been doing this for a loooooong time. I have a massive open-source portfolio[0]. Much of it is days (or minutes) old. I've been surfing the leading edge for my whole career. No one ever even looks at it. I've learned that if they give me a binary tree test, I might as well just end the p…

My plan to minimize ageism is straight forward. Continuous improvement in latest tech stack. Demonstrate delivering solutions. Regularly interview with recruiters for positions at or above my level. When the full time offers slows down, I’ll take on vendor and contract positions. When the contract positions slow down, I’ll start my own vendor or consulting company. I’ll hire younger sales and product people to be the…

I don't mean to sound rude, but what age are you right now?

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#256

Post by scrozier » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 1:53 AM UTC

I'm 62. I fell in love with programming as an undergraduate in 1977. I had traveled across the country to attend a school (University of North Texas) renowned for their music program. Not seeing my future in music, I was fortunate that the school also had a fine computer science program.

I often reflect that I know how to do two things--make music and program computers--that many view as very close to magic. And I'm grateful.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#257

Post by Jugurtha » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 1:53 AM UTC

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #255

wwww4all wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My plan to minimize ageism is straight forward. Continuous improvement in latest tech stack. Demonstrate delivering solutions. Regularly interview with recruiters for positions at or above my level. When the full time offers slows down, I’ll take on vendor and contract positions. When the contract positions slow down, I’ll start my own vendor or consulting company. I’ll hire younger sales and product people to be the…

I don't mean to sound rude, but what age are you right now?

Here's something funny: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26000821

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#258

Post by tartoran » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 1:54 AM UTC

shiyason wrote: post #210

dmingod666 wrote: post #150

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An alternate perspective to this is. The great line of thought, that you are meant to 'follow your passion' and discover your true calling. There is a job mean for you and you just need to find it. I disagree with this and feel this thinking makes peoples lives miserable thinking they're somehow wasting their lives and makes people take plunges in life that they later regret. I feel there is space for an attitude tha…

Could not agree more! Same goes for marriage actually! Thinking that life would have been better with someone else, is just an escape for the mind which makes people miserable! The secret is to roll up your sleeves, and put in the work!

True but beware, sometimes no matter how much is put into it’s simply a bad match. Also struggling with a bad match is a learning experience in humility but one is not to force themselves for a lifetime in a situation they don’t enjoy at all.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#259

Post by risk000 » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

mckirk wrote: post #106

DC1350 wrote: post #82

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Quoted post unavailable.

That seems like a harsh view. A lot of software isn't very glamorous or exciting at first glance, that's true. But if you're sufficiently intrigued by logic puzzles and the challenge of solving things elegantly, my guess is that even the most boring piece of software has some opportunity for fun buried in its architecture. But since you don't seem to be able to relate that too much, maybe you are just motivated by ot…

I like the optimism in your comment. I'm glad that we can appreciate things like this, the flexing of mental muscles in pursuit of a productive task.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#260

Post by aspaceman » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 1:58 AM UTC

pschw wrote: post #160

aspaceman wrote: post #124

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Write more code - solve fewer problems. Engineers solve problems. We use our expertise to take stressful and difficult problems and reduce them into simpler ones. You cut through bureaucracy and a healthy amount of talky bullshit to solve problems. The better you are at this, the more you're rewarded as an engineer. But this is a taxing process. Writing code is creative. You find your own problems, and solve the ones…

> Read a book about Lisp games programming Any recommendations?

https://nostarch.com/lisp.htm

Land of Lisp by Conrad Barski. I picked it up in a humble bundle for a couple of bucks and really enjoyed it. It was unabashedly nerdy and fun, and I really liked being exposed to that again.