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New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

arstechnica.com

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Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#251

Post by wruza »

thefreeman wrote: post #232
kortex wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article mentions rendering only the fovea in high resolution. The key advantage is it does not need to render all 33Mpx equally well.

and as mentioned in the article it’s a common technique that all vr headsets are already doing

Really? The article says “well-known method”, not “all vr headsets already doing”. From what I can find, DeepFovea and others were only work in progress (summer 2020) at best, in contrast to mainstream tech. Is there more info on that?

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#252

Post by playpause »

treve wrote: post #246
hppb wrote: post #9

I could see this as a virtual office, as some of the comments speculate. If I had a set of AR glasses that projected what appeared to be an 8K monitor on top of my dining room table, and integrated with my MacBook Pro for input / output, and that had batteries to last a workday, I’d pay $2K/$3K. Even more if it worked well at brightness levels I’d have in my backyard. Never mind gaming, mobile high-quality virtual of…

This is pretty funny to me. With VR you can go anywhere you can possibly imagine, and you chose an office.

With VR/AR you can’t “go anywhere” (not until the experience is Matrix-like anyway). You can just look at stuff. Like on a screen. Just a bit better than a traditional screen in a few ways, and worse in others. It’s not going to replace travelling to interesting places any time soon.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#253

Post by slimsag »

_coveredInBees wrote: post #248
taurath wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VRChat w positional audio is superior to just talking on the phone or thru a video conference I’d say

I was never arguing that VRChat/social apps are worse than other remote social experiences (phone call / video conference, etc.). My point is that it is very isolating and impossible to share the experience in any meaningful way with folks around you, or just be present at all while doing something in VR. Like I can play Mario on my TV while sharing that experience with my kids or chatting with my wife about things,…

Counterpoint: The same argument is true of phones, and that has largely not stopped people from being regularly severely distracted by them even in social settings.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#254

Post by playcache »

oliv__ wrote: post #144

Sooo looking forward to being able to live fully in a virtual world. Virtual cash, virtual socially distanced "relationships" and friends, a virtual body so I don't have to work out, and Neuralink attached to my brain (or whatever's left of that) so other people can make decisions for me. What a relief it's all coming together

It's an interesting premise to look at where this tech will take us. Decades ago social media was seen as a technology to bring people together with no borders to share information in a possible new utopia. Even though elements of that have occured, we have seen that its also caused a myraid of mental health / well being issues by rigging into peoples reward systems where likes become dopamine hits with hours of each day spent endlessly scrowling through feeds. In a way this tech concerns me in that its another enitcing route to retreat from the natural world.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#255

Post by cambalache »

treve wrote: post #246
hppb wrote: post #9

I could see this as a virtual office, as some of the comments speculate. If I had a set of AR glasses that projected what appeared to be an 8K monitor on top of my dining room table, and integrated with my MacBook Pro for input / output, and that had batteries to last a workday, I’d pay $2K/$3K. Even more if it worked well at brightness levels I’d have in my backyard. Never mind gaming, mobile high-quality virtual of…

This is pretty funny to me. With VR you can go anywhere you can possibly imagine, and you chose an office.

Well if the objective is to be productive I dont think it is a stupid take. I would pick that or a monk cell.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#256

Post by meheleventyone »

shock-value wrote: post #237
hwjwill wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The resolution on today's consumer headsets still isn't there to provide good experience (maybe https://varjo.com/ can work but it's not for consumers). Oculus Quest also last only 2-3 hours after fully charged. Main reason at least for me is it gets quite uncomfortable after wearing it for long (~30 min) due to weight and sweat

IMO the resolution is there so long as you have one of the latest headsets and are viewing a VR180 8K feed (my reference is the Quest 2). Live casting of an 8K feed probably is the limiting factor here (not the headset hardware).

It’s 8K per eye and to meet latency expectations right now you’d need to send the whole 180/360 video with enough resolution through it’s entirety so that there’s always enough pixels within the spherical polygon the eye frustrums create. Far more than an 8K feed and in particular I don’t know of any cameras capturing at that resolution?

360 video is also quite nauseating for people as it has no positional component (e.g. moving your head forward brings the scene with it). What we really want are streaming light fields.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#257

Post by wruza »

pronlover723 wrote: post #187
garbagetime wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The #1 use of VR headsets is porn and porn apps are growing What exactly do you mean by this? Are you saying that right now, the most popular use of VR headsets is for pornography? Or are you speculating on how VR headsets will be used in the future?

> Are you saying that right now, the most popular use of VR headsets is for pornography? Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's a "dirty little secret". Most of it is VR video at the moment but apps are growing quickly. New titles appearing on steam all the time and appearing on the top 10 selling titles.

I have all adult content on on my steam account (just checked my filters), and top selling VR section shows me Alyx, Beat Saber, Borderlands and other popular games as usual. Is there an additional setting to see that?

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#258

Post by slimsag »

wruza wrote: post #251
thefreeman wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and as mentioned in the article it’s a common technique that all vr headsets are already doing

Really? The article says “well-known method”, not “all vr headsets already doing”. From what I can find, DeepFovea and others were only work in progress (summer 2020) at best, in contrast to mainstream tech. Is there more info on that?

I don't think most support foveated rendering, currently.

But there are consumed ones available / becoming available:

* HP Reverb G2 Omnicept Edition

* HTC Vive Pro Eye

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#259

Post by jayd16 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #233
jayd16 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should look into how the Hololens is able to display floating windows. You're not cut off any more than the physically equivalent monitor would obscure. A full face headset would probably give off a socially isolating presence, at least today, though.

Hmmm... so even at 8K per lens, the floating display(s) is(are) how much of that 8K? So we're back to VGA resolution on your "virtual display". Yeah, no thanks.

The FOV of these devices is something like 100 degrees. There's not a lot of wasted space. Who knows what this theoretical Apple device is like though.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#260

Post by chipotle_coyote »

mhh__ wrote: post #239
TheDong wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more games on the iOS app store than exist on steam. I don't think apple needs valve or steam's support to make their own VR gaming platform just as they didn't need their support to make iOS a larger app-store for games than steam is.

> There are more games on the iOS app store than exist on steam. What's the figure when you compute the total engineering-hours into the games, though?

I see what you're getting at, but I think you probably want to look at total engineering hours per game if you want to get there. There were about 45,000 games on Steam at the end of 2020, based on what I've been able to pick up from news reports and Statista; there are over 950,000 games for iOS. Even presuming the average good iOS game takes fewer engineering hours and presuming there's more quick-buck cookie-cutter crap on iOS, there's almost certainly more engineering hours spent there than there is on any other platform.

But, I think you're still on to something. The biggest strike against Apple in this space is the same strike they've always had: they've never seemed to take gaming truly seriously at a corporate level, by which I mostly mean courting (and spending money on) AAA-class developers. Maybe this will change, but they have a very long track record of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in this area.

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