18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated • Hacker News Board

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#251

Post by twelve40 » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 7:52 AM UTC

lsiebert wrote: post #225

balia wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point, we have to let these people choose. You can only protect people from themselves to a certain degree Once the sane ones are vaccinated, open everything up and let nature take care of the dumb ones. If you insist on drinking gasoline, good luck

The people who don't get the vaccine aren't just hurting themselves. We need herd immunity for people who can't take it, or for whom it won't benefit. There are definitely people who may not benefit as much from the vaccine because they are immuno-compromised for example. The only reason not to take it is if your doctor tells you not to. Unless they've told us not to for medical reasons, we should take it if we can g…

Apparently the post you're replying to is not very popular. But I think both yours and that post make valid points that don't even contradict each other. Because even if we pressure people to do the right thing, after all, this is presumably a free country and there seem to be plenty of people (quickly scanning this thread for percentage quotes, dangerously close to ruining the presumed herd immunity level) who will refuse - or neglect - to comply. But what can really be done about this?

Pressuring in form of awareness efforts will take probably years, and who knows how many deniers will even get it. I'm starting to read posts and "studies" about paying people off, which I think is insane - (1) the whole idea of people who want to fix this problem actually having to bribe via their taxes those people who refuse to accept reality, and (2) payoffs can simply be abused in a million ways - but whatever, say we all take one for the greater good. But then even a large-scale payoff effort will also take months if not years.

What else can you do to pressure people? Restrict their rights until they get a shot? Tell them their kids can't go to school until they show a QR proof of vaccine? Realistically, just how can you pressure people if you are not in North Korea? So then we're back to everyone on lockdown because of the stubborn few?

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#252

Post by downandout » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 7:52 AM UTC

pertymcpert wrote: post #250

downandout wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said that we are being pushed onto the spectrum, not that we have become a socialist country. But COVID restrictions have forced millions of people out of work/business and into being entirely reliant on the government for money. When a substantial portion of the population is reliant on the government for money, the government must increase its own revenue, and it will come after those that still have an income fo…

The US has been doing that for decades, and inflation has never been out of control.

Not at the current level, much less that our new Administration is and will continue to push for.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#253

Post by midasuni » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 7:52 AM UTC

hirsin wrote: post #207

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we can add the vaccinated and the recovered, yes? About 25 million have recovered so far. That puts us at about 12% 'immune'.

Every medical professional I know /am related to has indicated that getting covid only grants 90 days immunity. Across state lines, they all have said that herd immunity visa infection is impossible as it requires everyone to be infected within a three month span.

In that case there will be tens of thousands of examples of people having covid back in April and having had it again in October and even again now.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#254

Post by Aunche » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 7:54 AM UTC

worker767424 wrote: post #246

Aunche wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fauci was never dishonest. That was Trump trying to shift the blame to him. Watch the original clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI&feature=youtu.be He literally said that the reason he is advising against masks was because he was worried about shortages.

> Fauci was never dishonest TheStreet asked him "why weren't we told to wear masks in the beginning?" > Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure that the people namely, th…

> he said (paraphrased) so the general public doesn't go out and buy them, causing a shortage

How is that dishonest? He was completely transparent about this motivation from the start, as shown from my clip from the earlier interview.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#255

Post by guscost » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 7:54 AM UTC

Teknoman117 wrote: post #229

guscost wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone who in their grief also wishes me suffering and an agonizing death, perhaps as revenge: > I wish every single one of them could experience the fear my grandfather did. Stuck in a bed, unable to walk, waiting for a plague to take them as their fellow patients succumb one by one. Sensitivity is a nice-to-have, but the goal right now is averting outright war. If none of these bubbles can be cracked open, and eve…

Please note I specifically said I wish they could experience the fear . It is not a wish for anyone to experience death, let alone a painful one. People rarely have to confront the extent of the results of their actions and as a result don't really think on those terms. Personal experience is an effective, often painful teacher. I can't claim to know your entire perspective, but from the outside, refusing to accept a…

Thanks for the reply. And er, good that you don’t actually want to go as far as killing me - there’s some wild shit out there right now. I would still be in favor of arguing about all the details over drinks, but for now I’ll just offer the roughest outline of the other perspective, which is:

Refusing to accept a temporarily increased risk of disease, and instead dramatically increasing the chance that your fellow humans will be crushed under the boot of fascism is... also selfish at best.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#256

Post by anovikov » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 7:58 AM UTC

jnotwell wrote: post #236

anovikov wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only for a while. Anywhere from 2 months to 2 years depending on who you ask, and severity of disease - 3 to 7 months for most people.

No one with any credibility is suggesting 2 months... As of October, "The confirmed examples worldwide [of re-infections] could possibly be counted on your fingers" [0]. Immune memory cells, which are more potent than antibodies, persist for longer than 6 months [1]. We don't have data to support 2 years of immunity, but current evidence is pointing at it being long-lasting [2]. [0] https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipel…

Lots and lots and lots (hundreds of thousands) of people in Russia have been officially infected and diagnosed twice. Many Russian docs who worked with Covid patients have already been sick three times. And yes, most of the time they say it's 3-5 months for asymptomatic cases and 9 months and more for severe symptomatic.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#257

Post by corin_ » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 7:58 AM UTC

eitland wrote: post #233

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nevermind the people who you infect and kill, you can’t be blamed for that, right?

Your statement seems to imply that the current vaccines prevent the spread of the virus too. Do you know this is verified yet? It was in the news today and it didn't seem like it was known yet here in Norway. I think we are using the Biontech vaccine. And, FTR, yes I'm generally pro vaccines.

There's no evidence yet (that I'm aware of) which is why experts are very cautious against giving false hope.

But based on past vaccines for other viruses and the way they and the covid vaccines help your body be better prepared to fight the virus, it's a reasonable guess that they may well at least limit spread, perhaps even close to prevent it.

So you're right to point out that it's not a sure thing, but I (admittedly, not an expert, but basing on views of experts) also think it would be more surprising if the vaccines didn't slow spread at all, the bigger question will be to what extent (both with and without current protective tools like masks and social distancing).

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#258

Post by guscost » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 8:00 AM UTC

vkou wrote: post #220

not_a_moth wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll unlikely reach said number because over 50% of the population of the us is not interested in a vaccine because they do not view covid-19 as a disease much more risky than the flu. Facing this reality, the policy will probably be once everyone who wants it has had a chance to get it, things will or should move towards normal.

Thanks to baseless, politically motivated FUD, there are a lot of people who don't want to get vaccinated, but that number is nowhere near 50%.

We will see. Flu shots get around 45%.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#259

Post by corin_ » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 8:02 AM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #245

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nevermind the people who you infect and kill, you can’t be blamed for that, right?

I don't infect and kill anything. I'm not a virus. What kind of demented logic is that? My uncle got the vaccine, and then a week later his family comes down with Covid, including him. They did fine, but it's not a guaranteed thing. This particular vaccine isn't even a vaccine in the traditional sense, where they give you an inhibited version of the virus and let your immune system work on it. It's an mRNA cellular p…

The fact that it's mRNA isn't really relevant to how your body fights the virus, it's still the same mechanism.

The traditional way (as used by the Oxford/Astrazenica covid vaccine, and others) is to show the body what the virus looks like by giving it non-harmful bits of protein that look like the bit of the virus the immune system will need to recognise.

The mRNA ones (like Pfizer's or Moderna's) use mRNA code to tell your body to create those harmless proteins, and then the rest is the same - your immune system learns to recognise them, which is good because it will be more likely to recognise the real virus.

The mRNA technique is just moving the "create these harmless things" from the lab to inside the body. It doesn't change how your body fights the virus compared to traditional vaccine methods.

(mRNA vaccines have also been undergoing safety tests for years, these ones for covid are the first approved but not because previous/ongoing ones were shown to be unsafe.)

e.g. info from CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different...

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#260

Post by jariel » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 8:02 AM UTC

xiphias2 wrote: post #49

jariel wrote: post #46

Here is a interactive chart showing various nations [1] Israel will be #1 by far. They have apparently paid $65/dose or something like that, far ahead of what others have paid, moreover, the dealing looks a little problematic. Obviously, it's worth far, far more than $65 a person, but it may not make too much sense to get into a vicious bidding war as it's unlikely to increase the rate of production and the surpluses…

Why not? Bidding should be time based to provide better incentives for the companies to spend money on factories.

Because the need for massive, acute production capacity for a specific variation of vaccine is short-lived.

What's the odds that we're going to have another pandemic in the next 10 years that has nRNA vaccine?

There's no need for massive production capacity other than during a global pandemic, and you probably don't know what you need, supply chains etc. until the time of production or thereabouts.

So - the money won't go into building out production capacity for something, when we don't know what that something is, it's constituent parts, or what technologies will be utilized.