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Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

theguardian.com

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Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#251

Post by viraptor »

arkh wrote: post #223
dm319 wrote: post #3

The UK plan for no ICE vehicles to be sold by 2030 is fairly ambitious. I'm seeing more and more electric vehicles on the roads, but I think some regular customers will be disappointed by how poor the infrastructure is. Not only that electric chargers aren't as prevalent as they need to be, but the number of high-speed chargers are tiny (think a couple of locations per large city), but an even bigger problem is the h…

> no ICE vehicles Even with chargers everywhere there will be a problem: we'll have to produce a lot more electricity. And when we start reading about possible blackouts in some countries in Europe due to environmental decisions 2030 feels like not far enough. Solar and wind won't be enough. Nuclear suffers from NIMBY. So what? We'll produce electricity from oil, coal and gaz? Awesome way to move the emission problem…

> We'll produce electricity from oil, coal and gaz?

Yes, it's still better because you can move the electricity production to another source, but you can't move the petrol production the same way. If it buys time, it's still an approach to a better future even if it's not immediate.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#252

Post by kylecordes »

jiggawatts wrote: post #246

My problem is renting apartments. If you ask the strata or the building managers about charging points in the carpark, they look at you like you're speaking Klingon. This is true of even very recently completed buildings in well-off areas of relatively wealthy western countries. Heck, I just walked past three Teslas in my building's car park, one of which is new and wasn't there last week! Do people... not plan ahead…

Widespread charging points in newly constructed parking areas will happen when required by building code and enforced by local governments; and likely not one minute before.

The construction industry is brutally competiive and cost-centric; things are included because they are required or because of customer demand, almost never just because they are a good idea.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#253

Post by viraptor »

buran77 wrote: post #216
gambiting wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've driven through Germany last summer, tried 3 different charging stations, none of them worked. Or rather, they did, but I couldn't set up the app for them, one because it didn't have an English option, one because it wouldn't accept my non-German card and another because it was giving me an extremely helpful "unspecified" error. But even here in UK it's a mess. There is a charging station near my home that seems…

Charging in much of Europe is really not a great experience. It's a fragmented market, different electricity providers (this matters, some chargers really want you to be a customer of a specific electricity provider, some just offer different prices depending on this), different charging networks, different plugs, different apps and payment methods, different behavior even if you're seemingly in the same network, wil…

This sounds like an opportunity for an independent app unifying all of those and gathering/displaying real usability data. I don't think it could make official app stores due to having to reverse-engineer payment APIs of others, but... maybe something open-source and side-loaded?

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#254

Post by pacaro »

sunstone wrote: post #239
abeppu wrote: post #202

I'm curious how many EV purchasers live in single family homes, or other places where they can provide their own ability to charge at home. I wonder if a new scale of adoption will require a change where most (or a lot) of street parking is by cheap charging. https://youtu.be/RMxB7zA-e4Y?t=1245

The idea of providing charging outlets at the base of street lamp poles seems like a practical way of helping transition to EV's.

While I agree that this is obvious low hanging fruit, there are plenty of housing in areas with relatively sparse street lamps

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#255

Post by kylecordes »

turtlebits wrote: post #178

Mass adoption won't happen until charging infrastructure improves dramatically. As a non-Tesla owner, I have had the worst experiences at fast charging stations - I'd say 70% of the time at Electrify America stations (they have the most fast charging coverage), I run into a charger that doesn't work and waste time moving my car and retrying another bay. (I've even experienced a station with 5 bays where none of them…

This is a great mystery of electric vehicle charging: why is it so hard for anyone but Tesla to keep most of the chargers working most of the time?

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#256

Post by bosie »

rconti wrote: post #220
gambiting wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've driven through Germany last summer, tried 3 different charging stations, none of them worked. Or rather, they did, but I couldn't set up the app for them, one because it didn't have an English option, one because it wouldn't accept my non-German card and another because it was giving me an extremely helpful "unspecified" error. But even here in UK it's a mess. There is a charging station near my home that seems…

Ugh, card payments in Germany, for non-Germans, is generally a nightmare anyway. It's a bummer that it's not a solved problem for EV charging, because in many ways, I think the EU is ahead of the US in (non-Tesla) charging infra.

What's the problem with card payments in germany for non-germans?

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#257

Post by modeless »

turtlebits wrote: post #178

Mass adoption won't happen until charging infrastructure improves dramatically. As a non-Tesla owner, I have had the worst experiences at fast charging stations - I'd say 70% of the time at Electrify America stations (they have the most fast charging coverage), I run into a charger that doesn't work and waste time moving my car and retrying another bay. (I've even experienced a station with 5 bays where none of them…

Tesla has said they are willing to license the Supercharger network. That said, superchargers are not immune to being broken either. I find that many if not most have at least one broken stall.

I got free supercharging for ordering an early Model 3 and didn't expect to use it, but it has been a lifesaver during covid when I suddenly lost access to work charging.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#258

Post by cptskippy »

edgarvaldes wrote: post #237

How do you pay for the electricity to charge your vehicle in a public spot?

In the United States there are several large charging networks who work with businesses to install their branded chargers. The rates are set by the business and you use the network's charge card or App to activate the charger. I've seen a couple, and used one charger that accepted credit cards but those are definitely the minority.

I only ever used one network, ChargePoint, and they sent you 2 RFID cards in the mail you could put in the car or on your keychain. You could swipe them on the charger or use your NFC equiped phone with their App. I accidentally swiped my phone once without opening the App and it opened up Google Pay and let me pay that way as well. There are a lot of free ChargePoint chargers, I encountered those mostly on government property.

Allegedly the larger networks are interoperable now to some extent but I've yet to use that. Since I moved to California I've only charged away from home once.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#259

Post by viraptor »

tyho wrote: post #10
dm319 wrote: post #3

The UK plan for no ICE vehicles to be sold by 2030 is fairly ambitious. I'm seeing more and more electric vehicles on the roads, but I think some regular customers will be disappointed by how poor the infrastructure is. Not only that electric chargers aren't as prevalent as they need to be, but the number of high-speed chargers are tiny (think a couple of locations per large city), but an even bigger problem is the h…

The 2030 date will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. So long as "everybody" truly believes the Governments threat to effectively ban ICE sales after 2030, then clear economic opportunities to service the future demand for electric cars and charging infrastructure become apparent. This sidesteps the issues with network effects. You don't have to worry about building a charging network before electric cars become widespre…

> So long as "everybody" truly believes the Governments threat to effectively ban ICE sales after 2030

Does "everybody" matter in this case? The reality for the manufacturers is that they need designs, standard, deals, factories, production lines ready years before 2030 if the ban actually happens. So it's really a question whether they believe the plan, or are they ready to call the bluff and go out of business if they're wrong.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#260

Post by sunstone »

sandworm101 wrote: post #51

Maybe in the UK, but not where I am. It was -26 this morning. Batteries don't handle such temperatures well. And the nearest civilian airport is 400km away. I haven't seen a single all-electric car in my town since I moved here over a year ago.

Weirdly, the most popular car in Ulan Bator (capital of Mongolia) is the Prius because in their super cold winters it, of all cars, starts and runs best in the cold.
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