Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

barrons.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 332 posts

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#251

Post by qwerty456127 »

brazzy wrote: post #125
that_guy_iain wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience talking to the people whose job it is to provide support and services to those who abuse substances. Most experts in substance abuse normally say Alcohol is the worst of all the substances. With many stating, it causes more havoc in families on scale than heroin. More people die because of Alcohol, not just from drinking it but from drink drivers, drunken fights, etc. The general violence caused by…

But note that all those statement are about the amount of harm in an environment where alcohol is legal, cheaply available in every supermarket, widely advertized, and its consumption socially accepted, even expected . Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous?

> Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous?

I'm sure that in general people on weed, shrooms, DMT or MDMA are much much less prone to violent aggression and destructive behaviour than drunk people. I'm also sure all of these but the last do much less (if any) harm to your health than alcohol does.

The only drugs I know which can be considered as or more dangerous than alcohol are opioids (except kratom - it's considered opioid but is harmless unless you consume huge amounts regularly for too long), cocaine (if taken chronically), meth (if abused, can change life for good if used properly to treat severe ADHD cases) and bromo-dragonfly. LSD probably is dangerous for people who are borderline crazy - psychos may become more violent after taking it.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#252

Post by [deleted] »

xamuel wrote: post #230
waste_monk wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an article [1] I read here a while ago: """ Now, goods are hidden in publicly accessible places like parks and the location is given to the customer on purchase. The customer then goes to the location and picks up the goods. This means that delivery becomes asynchronous for the merchant, he can hide a lot of product in different locations for future, not yet known, purchases. For the client the time to delivery…

Great. So because of our glorious War On Drugs, now drugs are being hidden all over the place where curious little kids are liable to find them. Can we please legalize yesterday?

[deleted]

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#253

Post by bjelkeman-again »

brazzy wrote: post #125
that_guy_iain wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience talking to the people whose job it is to provide support and services to those who abuse substances. Most experts in substance abuse normally say Alcohol is the worst of all the substances. With many stating, it causes more havoc in families on scale than heroin. More people die because of Alcohol, not just from drinking it but from drink drivers, drunken fights, etc. The general violence caused by…

But note that all those statement are about the amount of harm in an environment where alcohol is legal, cheaply available in every supermarket, widely advertized, and its consumption socially accepted, even expected . Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous?

One of the core dilemmas to me in this argument is that the way we do it now exports the problem to others who have less resources to deal with the impact. Countries breaking, millions in jail, hundred billion $ spent etc. [1]

[1] https://transformdrugs.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/CTC-Ec...

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#254

Post by qwerty456127 »

martin_a wrote: post #70

"the largest market" always reminds me of "Bin Ladens right hand". Obviously the next one becomes the largest, but nevertheless it's like they kill at least one of those markets a month. Probably legalizing weed would stop most of that more effectively than all those police operations after month of preparation.

True but please don't stop on weed, please also liberalize non-narcotic prescription medications availability to let people buy whatever they know they need without having to visit a doctor.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#255

Post by pksebben »

brazzy wrote: post #125
that_guy_iain wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience talking to the people whose job it is to provide support and services to those who abuse substances. Most experts in substance abuse normally say Alcohol is the worst of all the substances. With many stating, it causes more havoc in families on scale than heroin. More people die because of Alcohol, not just from drinking it but from drink drivers, drunken fights, etc. The general violence caused by…

But note that all those statement are about the amount of harm in an environment where alcohol is legal, cheaply available in every supermarket, widely advertized, and its consumption socially accepted, even expected . Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous?

if you make something illegal, you don't reduce it's use necessarily, but you do increase the harm done by pushing users into the dark. Compare the harms of alcohol abuse now to the harms of alcohol as an illicit substance during prohibition, with the explosion in organized crime that came with it. Legalizing reduced the harm.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#256

Post by that_guy_iain »

jariel wrote: post #247
that_guy_iain wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow, you're not using your imagination well enough to recognize how ubiquitously widespread opioid addiction would be were it integrated into our coffee, soft-drinks, an aperatif with dinner etc.. It would be a massive, ongoing public health crisis. That would never happen. People literally wouldn't buy the products enmass because they don't want to sit around drooping all day. > Finally - if Tobacco is really in t…

"wouldn't buy the products the products enmass because they don't want to sit around drooping all day." Yes they would (!) and we already know why: it's extremely addictive . We have ample evidence from the ongoing Opioid Crisis that people who get 'too many pills' from an operation can and do become very addicted and 'do it all day'. Have a look here [1] from the Economist. What does that look like? It looks like 'C…

> We have ample evidence from the ongoing Opioid Crisis that people who get 'too many pills' from an operation can and do become very addicted and 'do it all day'.

That's kind of different. So that's people who start taking them for medical reasons and become addicted during the course of taking them for medical reasons. This wasn't they decided to start taking them for fun. This also seems to be mainly an issue in the US as other countries doctors don't hand out these pills that often due to nature of them.

To understand what heroin usage is like you can watch a few seconds of this video that I have at the correct time https://youtu.be/17TbF6n4jI0?t=459. While it's Valium and not heroin trust me that is how heroin addicts act while on heoroin too.

Heroin has been legal repeatedly throughout time. It never brought the world down before.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#257

Post by TrackerFF »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #216
redisman wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like with small-town drug dealers. Kids seek them to purchase weed, but then after a while the dealer is trying to push other stuff on them. This sounds like one of those 90's scary stories. Do you also believe that the first dose is free?

Anecdotal evidence: I met someone on the road (massive city, never saw the guy again) who tried to sell me some weed. I didn't want it and he ended up gifting me a small amount. That said, I think the gateway drug phenomenon is a ridiculous theory. There are people who are going to try any drug they can and there are people who are going to research the subject and just do drugs they deem to be safe / not addictive.

I don't think that the gateway drug theory holds any water. With that said, I do think a lot of users end up trying harder stuff because they're with the wrong crowd.

For what it's worth - I don't use anything. But I have friends who are regular users. Some use a lot of different stuff.

I've been told that whenever cannabis (here in Europe, that's usually hashish) dries up, there's always going to be people that turn to harder stuff. Apparently after COVID hit, hashish became very difficult to get, and people started dabbling with speed, etc.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#258

Post by pksebben »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #251
brazzy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But note that all those statement are about the amount of harm in an environment where alcohol is legal, cheaply available in every supermarket, widely advertized, and its consumption socially accepted, even expected . Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous?

> Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous? I'm sure that in general people on weed, shrooms, DMT or MDMA are much much less prone to violent aggression and destructive behaviour than drunk people. I'm also sure all of these but the last do much less (if any) harm to your health than alcohol does. The only drugs I know which can be considered as or mor…

Ahem. A couple addendums, if I may: LSD has no measurable long term side effects - the myth that it makes people go crazy came out of the fact that our can make you feel crazy. Kratom is not an opioid. to qualify as an opioid, you must be derived from opium. Cocaine is not nearly as dangerous as alcohol. It is, perhaps, easier to indulge in cocaine to excess, but people on it are not nearly as likely to do things that will kill them. take a look at DUI vs DWI deaths. Also, long term alcohol abuse is more toxic than long term cocaine use.

Generally, though, you're kind of on the right track. Alcohol is the absolute worst. I might also add to the conversation that making something illegal doesn't reduce it's use.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#259

Post by pksebben »

brazzy wrote: post #198
that_guy_iain wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most part, yes. Lots of the harm comes from the fact they're not legal and cheaply available. For example, heroin, I would say nearly all the harm comes from the fact it's not legal. Overdoses are prevented because they can happen in safe places where people will notice. I've even been told of a story where people thought someone was having an overdose and they were told to go home because they couldn't risk…

> For the most part, yes. No. > Lots of the harm comes from the fact they're not legal and cheaply available. I fully agree with this. > For example, heroin, I would say nearly all the harm comes from the fact it's not legal. Overdoses are prevented because they can happen in safe places where people will notice. Even if that is true, the harm that does not come from the fact that it's illegal would be magnified a hu…

err. have you heard about the opioid crisis? that stuff is to heroin like beer is to vodka. it's the same shit. waaaaaaay more people take opioids than just the heroin users, but there's all part of the same thing. it's the same molecule

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#260

Post by vMPQonVtAjLWmr »

cnity wrote: post #220
pasabagi wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think alcohol works better as a counter-argument. In Germany, it is not only legal, but it is also legal to sell in 'bubblegum flavour party boxes', obviously aimed at children. It is legal to sell at checkout, so after a recovering alcoholic is tired out by all the shopping they can be tempted by a little bottle of vodka or whatever. Despite this, and a social culture that revolves around drinking, the vast majori…

This makes the assumption that the usage patterns for all drugs matches alcohol. It's more likely that alcohol simply really is not that addictive or harmful (compared to "harder" drugs like meth or cocaine).

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11660210
Post reply on HN