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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#251

Post by pmiller2 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

If Visa is a "utility," why are we clutching pearls when Trump is banned by them, but not Pornhub?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#252

Post by incrudible »

greatgirl wrote: post #215
ashtonkem wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spare us your outrage. A literal mob just overran the Capitol. Attempting to talk about “the mob” in opposition to the actual mobs that are continuing to take over Capitol buildings is frankly so tone deaf it’s almost insulting to our intelligence.

I'm tired of people who have only read one book in their entire lives (1984) trying to explain to me how banning Trump is going to lead to an angry leftist mob throwing me in jail (because leftists have power right?) for speaking.

[flagged]

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#253

Post by betterunix2 »

userbinator wrote: post #201
sacks2k wrote: post #26

The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.

Also, I'm not advocating for any violence, but keep in mind that the US was certainly not created peacefully either: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War

...and after winning they promptly put down another attempted revolution, then passed laws against further violent revolution and working with foreign governments against the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_rebellion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_sedition_act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#254

Post by yetanother5 »

_pius wrote: post #58
sacks2k wrote: post #26

The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.

The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. The facile sophistry of comments like yours is becoming obnoxious. An actual fascist mob already came for us last week and we were not protected, get it? There can be interesting intellectual arguments about whether this was the right move but breathlessly calling ToS enforcement by private companies a “mob” while ignoring an actual mob wit…

Labelling average Americans as fascists is the reason why Trump got 75 million votes.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#255

Post by flowside »

sacks2k wrote: post #26

The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.

You are free to create your own far-right payment bank and payment system. The fact that sites like 4chan and Stormfront continue to exist is a sign that no one's speech has been stifled, only inconvenienced.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#256

Post by kuzimoto »

bigcorp-slave wrote: post #52
sacks2k wrote: post #26

The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.

I don’t know if you were paying attention last week, but the mob literally came for the members of Congress. There are wrong opinions, and then there is “six million Jews were not enough” and “hang the Vice President”, and a violent mob attacking the Capitol. No one is under any obligation to tolerate such actions in a civil society. If I advocate for your murder, am I just expressing an opinion that should be conseq…

Shouldn't people be held accountable for their own actions at some point? Everyone should know that murder is illegal, even if says to kills someone, you should know not to.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#257

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pmiller2 wrote: post #251
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

If Visa is a "utility," why are we clutching pearls when Trump is banned by them, but not Pornhub?

> If Visa is a "utility," why are we clutching pearls when Trump is banned by them, but not Pornhub?

Visa is not a utility. I would be open to debating whether they should be one.

The flip side of such a designation is it would likely require the government indemnify Visa against fraud losses. The line between deplatforming for fraud risk (the ostensible reason for Visa’s aversion to porn) and for objectionable content is difficult to draw.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#258

Post by yetanother5 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #163
intricatedetail wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw a line? These days in a snowflake culture any opinion can cause outrage and violence. It's just a matter of interpretation and who reads the message. Should companies be allowed to restrict your freedom to information? It's quite patronising.

> Where do you draw a line? Somewhere on the right side of "storming Congress with a mob".

But looting is ok? As is pulling down historical statues and monuments?

Who gets to decide to the line? Do we get to vote for them?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#259

Post by rglover »

Maybe I'm being naive but it seems like a larger problem is being ignored here that I feel I should call attention to.

This is going to piss people off and some of those people are going to be real, nothing-to-lose extremists. Actions like these though seemingly harmless in the short-term are going to radicalize the exact person/type of people that you do not want to radicalize.

Because a lot of high-ranking SV folks (and patrickc) are on here, please, for the sake of stability in the country, do not continue down this path.

This may seem innocuous now and purely a matter of principle, but this is a match to gasoline (in a multitude of ways).

---

Please do not read this through whatever political lens you occupy, but instead through the lens of civility.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#260

Post by jo032 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #214
jo032 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hollywood is a private business as well. They were within their rights to make a blacklist. And people cheered on big business for protecting them and snitched on their friends to their employers, just like they're doing now

> Hollywood is a private business as well. No, it's not a private business. > They were within their rights to make a blacklist No, making an agreement in restraint of trade is a violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act.

are you under the impression that the hollywood studios published an actual blacklist and openly admitted to collusion?

They didn't do that, just like the tech giants are not doing that now, as they take the same action at the same time against the same target.

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