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US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

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Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#251

Post by harperlee »

macdamaniac wrote: post #233
mwfunk wrote: post #70

I'm all in favor of people who need them having emotional support animals, but for as long as this has been a thing I have been totally shocked at how many people I personally know (who I thought were better people than this) completely abusing it to bring their pets with them everywhere (planes or anywhere else where you don't normally take pets). And joking about abusing the system, and joking about how awesome it…

I have a pretty unpopular take on this, being married to someone with severe pet allergies. That take is, dogs (and cats) have no place on an airplane, and responsible adults shouldn't get pets that they can't find sitters for or board while they are away. Planes are enclosed-air spaces, and the allergens from your dog make anyone with allergies miserable for the entire duration of the flight. Every single time we en…

> Actual service animals do still belong, because they provide an actual service, are extremely well-trained, and are worth the allergen/phobia tradeoff because folks who need them literally need them.

If your opinion includes that proviso then then I can’t see how’s unpopular! It is quite reasonable overall.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#252

Post by masklinn »

snark42 wrote: post #236
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like dogs only, so you can probably still take your Great Dane.

Has to be trained by a licensed service animal program and fit under the seat.

Miniature horses can be service animals, and I’ve never seen one fitting under a seat. You have to fit the seat over the horse instead.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#253

Post by masklinn »

llbeansandrice wrote: post #45
hpoe wrote: post #5

So something I only recently found out myself is that there is actual no real requirements in order to register an animal as an "emotional support animal", I found that out after my sister registered her dog as an emotional support animal to get around her apartments "no pets allowed" rule. Another interesting thing is that I have a friend who builds apartments in a college town for students. The apartments for years…

A bit of conflation in some of the comments but the "issue" is a bit of a loophole in the ADA. The ADA basically tries to minimize the burden of having a disability. So there are no licensing fees or registration or anything related to having a service animal by the government and as such businesses, landlords, etc. can't ask for something like a license or registration of a service animal as verification. The key di…

> To be clear, I think emotional support animals are ridiculous

ESA are an accepted therapeutic aid for mental issues. In fact airlines require medical evidence under 14 C.F.R. § 382.117(e).

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#254

Post by anoncake »

flflfppp wrote: post #142
cj wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by no means entitles me to abuse measures meant to help the genuinely disabled for my own convenience. The decision wasn't for my personal convenience. It's much more convenient to throw an animal in the cargo hold. It really is not fun to deal with an animal with you on a crowded plane. Convenience is not the motivating factor at least for me... it's simply treating the animal humanely, which to me means avoiding…

Then you should have absorbed the inconvenience of driving cross-country, not abusing a system meant to help people that need it. Also, I'm perplexed by people's use of the word "humane" when it comes to pets. If you want to treat them humanely (as you would other humans), open your front door and let them walk out to freedom. I've owned and will own pets again...but it's preposterous to compare the animal to the hum…

Just because "humane" is related to "human", it doesn't mean it applies only to humans. Also it's silly to allow cats on planes while prohibiting dogs.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#255

Post by happytoexplain »

RegnisGnaw wrote: post #132
happytoexplain wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None, since it would probably be deemed infeasible. I think the tendency of engineers to extrapolate "rules" to extreme cases creates a lot of noise. Rules in law, business, and society are not the same as rules in engineering - they allow for subjectivity.

Peacocks: https://www.nj.com/news/2020/12/no-your-emotional-support-pe... Pig https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/30/travel/emotional-support-pig-... Kangaroo https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mcdonalds-kangaroo-beaver-dam...

I don't understand the point you're making.

A. Your examples are of animals disallowed - not allowed.

B. Those animals are obviously much more feasible, physically.

C. Regardless of how feasible they are, I simply gave a reasonable answer to the question - I didn't imply that all human systems have that same answer.

You should explain your thoughts, instead of only posting links with no context.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#256

Post by llbeansandrice »

henrikschroder wrote: post #241
llbeansandrice wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Service animals have to be licensed In the US this is not true by the ADA as licensing is a pretty prohibitive cost for many people with disabilities.

I would assume the cost of a license to be much, much smaller than the actual cost of raising and training a service animal?

Generally there are charities/non-profit organizations that will do a lot of the training and help with the ongoing costs of care.

I personally don't see the argument that a separate license is needed or helpful. It's an extra cost and step that's entirely unnecessary. If you want or need a service animal you obviously have to have some way to train it and care for it, but a license is extra. Also if it is ever lost or anything you could be turned away from any public place until it's resolved. I just see it causing more issues for people than it tends to solve.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#257

Post by llbeansandrice »

masklinn wrote: post #253
llbeansandrice wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of conflation in some of the comments but the "issue" is a bit of a loophole in the ADA. The ADA basically tries to minimize the burden of having a disability. So there are no licensing fees or registration or anything related to having a service animal by the government and as such businesses, landlords, etc. can't ask for something like a license or registration of a service animal as verification. The key di…

> To be clear, I think emotional support animals are ridiculous ESA are an accepted therapeutic aid for mental issues. In fact airlines require medical evidence under 14 C.F.R. § 382.117(e).

Is this explicitly different that animals that are trained to help with say PTSD? I know those are classified as service animals under the ADA and not ESAs.

I also mentioned in another comment below that my general interaction with ESAs is people using it as a loophole to take their pets places and causing issues for people with service animals. You're right that there are certainly good cases for it and I'm sure plenty of responsible people with ESAs that aren't part of that group.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#258

Post by masklinn »

llbeansandrice wrote: post #257
masklinn wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be clear, I think emotional support animals are ridiculous ESA are an accepted therapeutic aid for mental issues. In fact airlines require medical evidence under 14 C.F.R. § 382.117(e).

Is this explicitly different that animals that are trained to help with say PTSD? I know those are classified as service animals under the ADA and not ESAs. I also mentioned in another comment below that my general interaction with ESAs is people using it as a loophole to take their pets places and causing issues for people with service animals. You're right that there are certainly good cases for it and I'm sure ple…

> Is this explicitly different that animals that are trained to help with say PTSD?

Yes. As you say those are service animals, meaning they are trained to actively help e.g. a service animal could be trained to detect acute distress and actively insert themselves into the situation. An ESA is just support.

> I also mentioned in another comment below that my general interaction with ESAs is people using it as a loophole to take their pets places and causing issues for people with service animals.

I completely agree that this is a huge issue. Although people will also misrepresent service animals as most states have no sanctions about that (it's rarer because there are usually expectations about service animals, and the available "range" is extremely limited e.g. a cat or a cockatoo can not be a service animal).

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#259

Post by dudul »

Ansil849 wrote: post #44

I'm finding a lot of the comments in this thread to be hurtful. Yes, many were abusing the system to register pets as service animals. No, that is not a reason to forbid the practice which was genuinely helpful to people like myself who have a phobia of flying coupled with anxiety and having a service animal genuinely helps get through a flight without the need for medication. The problem is the desire to not devote…

From https://adata.org/guide/service-animals-and-emotional-suppor...

"Emotional support animals, comfort animals, and therapy dogs are not service animals under Title II and Title III of the ADA. [...] It does not matter if a person has a note from a doctor that states that the person has a disability and needs to have the animal for emotional support. A doctor’s letter does not turn an animal into a service animal."

This post is about emotional support animals, not service animals. Your animal, who's helping you feel better despite your phobia, is not a service animal. This is exactly because people keep blurring the line between these 2 different situations that airlines, restaurants and other businesses have to implement "a-hole policies".

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#260

Post by giarc »

gravitas wrote: post #159
giarc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to share how much it cost? I'm also surprised the players didn't just get to bring the pets on the charter plane they travel around the country on, if only for that initial move.

They provided a breakdown on the invoice for me, stripping out all the sensitive info (reminder this was a decade ago): Item #: Transport Fee (small animal) Unit price: $495.00 Description: Total of 1734 Miles (fuel surcharge) Unit price: $246.80 Sometimes a plane is not an option - I was moving, a large moving truck was transporting the house, while I was transporting the items they could not carry on their truck (l…

Interesting, thanks for sharing those figures.
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