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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#251

Post by roenxi »

tptacek wrote: post #240
roenxi wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't know what is going on in Coinbase. But the NYT has in the past overplayed the race card with no evidence. Now I'm happy to agree that the retention rate of black people at Coinbase raises some questions. But the NYT, having asked those questions, came up with no particular evidence of racism. The major piece of evidence that these issues are substantially due to race is that the NYT felt it warranted a…

On the contrary, they came up with several examples of biased behavior, including an instance where the Black members of a team were required to relocate while a non-Black member wasn't, an instance where a Black team member was subjected to to insults about drug dealing and guns from their manager, recruiting team member claims that Black candidates were less capable, the fact that Coinbase employs Black workers at…

Starting with the assumption that they are racist, that is the tip of a nasty iceburg.

Starting with the assumption it is a pretty normal company, that is a list mostly of stuff that nobody should care about.

If someone can articulate what the HR complaints are about then that might be evidence. But complaints to HR are expected - that is why HR gets hired. They are there to deal with HR complaints. And read resumes.

> including an instance where the Black members of a team were required to relocate while a non-Black member wasn't

This one is stupid. Am I meant to believe they are revealing their racist ways by hiring black people then asking them to relocate, racistly? This is bog standard sucks-to-work-in-support activity. Miserable working conditions, but nothing to do with skin colour. A similar thing happened to my father back in the day. He certainly wasn't black.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#252

Post by slg »

blub wrote: post #250
throwmylifawy wrote: post #214

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

When accusations of racism are being thrown around carelessly and people are having their reputations destroyed and lives turned upside down because of a single thing they (allegedly) said, the potential future targets of these accusations realize that the stakes just became much higher for them. So why would they support and enable those that might come for their own heads next? It's rational to be antagonistic in s…

What is "careless" about the accusations in the article and who at Coinbase is having their life ruined by a "single thing they (allegedly) said"? It sounds like you are letting your fears of this overall issue impact how you view these specific accusations against a specific company.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#253

Post by eganist »

bra-ket wrote: post #247
throwmylifawy wrote: post #214

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

The frustration is understandable, but BLM movement discredited any and all accusations of racism, as they've been blatantly lying for months via massive propaganda campaign, making martyrs out of criminals while staging violent protests against non-existent 'police brutality'.

> BLM movement discredited any and all accusations of racism, as they've been blatantly lying for months via massive propaganda campaign

Can you please provide a reputable and well-sourced journalistic or academic reference for this claim that BLM is operating a "massive propaganda campaign"?

> making martyrs out of criminals

Can you please provide a reputable and well-sourced journalistic or academic reference for this claim that "criminals" were rendered as martyrs?

> while staging violent protests against non-existent 'police brutality'.

Can you please provide a reputable and well-sourced journalistic or academic reference for this claim that police brutality does not exist?

---

As of this edit at 02:52 UTC, this comment is at 0 votes (fluctuating between +1 and -1 repeatedly over the course of the last two hours and likely having incurred as many as 6 downvotes and upvotes in that time) and has been flagged as of 02:11 UTC and dead as of 02:52 UTC. I'm not terribly surprised - Paul Graham ended up on the wrong side of this argument earlier today before NYT dropped their bombshell report by claiming that traditional reporting was declining in the context of the Coinbase front-run, so the fact that HN is deeply suffering from the same strain of (at the very least unconscious) bigotry isn't really news, but I'm keeping tabs on it anyway because people need to understand the problems HN has with diversity and inclusion. https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1332272708428713984

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#254

Post by bra-ket »

tptacek wrote: post #241
bra-ket wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Being less racist is actually the unusual condition that requires proof are you for real?

If you want to dispute something another commenter says, do so. The guidelines ask you specifically not to snark like this.

some comments cross over to the realm of outrageous and ridiculous to an extent they cannot be acknowledged in any reasonable and guidelines-compliant way.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#255

Post by ironchef »

bra-ket wrote: post #247
throwmylifawy wrote: post #214

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

The frustration is understandable, but BLM movement discredited any and all accusations of racism, as they've been blatantly lying for months via massive propaganda campaign, making martyrs out of criminals while staging violent protests against non-existent 'police brutality'.

No.

The majority of the protests were mostly peaceful.

https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-vi...

Police brutality is real https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#256

Post by demarq »

polartx wrote: post #78
demarq wrote: post #7

> I know it’s frustrating and distracting. Let’s keep focused on building an amazing company together. One would hope an amazing company that doesn't cover it's ass when it turns out the executive couldn't give a hoot about the treatment of black people and now everyone knows

One could argue that it would be unethical to use your investors’ money as a political (or even idealogical) bullhorn. Notwithstanding, such a position places zero restrictions on doing the same with your own money..but corporations make for more interesting headlines than the individuals that run them.

if a house is burning and you have the fire extinguisher, you don’t get to be neutral buddy

you run a company and tell people they will feel included and then they face discrimination... well your house is on fire, you are the leadership and decide not to use you position to do anything

but yeah let’s make it zero sum and say that looking after the investor means that we can treat black people with some decency

BS

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#257

Post by tptacek »

bra-ket wrote: post #254
tptacek wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to dispute something another commenter says, do so. The guidelines ask you specifically not to snark like this.

some comments cross over to the realm of outrageous and ridiculous to an extent they cannot be acknowledged in any reasonable and guidelines-compliant way.

No, the guidelines aren't optional, as 'dang points out relentlessly. If you can't be civil and substantive, don't comment.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#258

Post by adjkant »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #239
adjkant wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coinbase's stance there is fair, reasonable and moral The 60 people who left makes it clear this is not agreed upon. HN has already played out this debate on the original post so I'll save going into it here, but it's disingenuous to say that Russ didn't quit because of race-related policy, whether or not you think the policy is race-related. That said, putting out that "apolitical stance" in the direct wake of Geo…

Are there other non-crypto political stances Coinbase has taken? It seems to me that this was just the first time they needed such a policy. I certainly wouldn't have anticipated the possibility of a new political slogan that almost every major company is forced to chant.

Many companies regularly work within mainstream political action such as LGTBQ+ rights, data privacy, homelessness, local housing or public works, and children's orgs such as Big Brother Big Sister. While these vary in controversiality, relevancy, and apolitical nature, it's not at all uncommon to see companies working in these areas (and others unlisted). Often companies grow into them along with size and profits, so I don't know if Coinbase historically can be taken as sign of consistency either. What Coinbase did was effectively say "well now that BLM has entered mainstream politics and other companies are taking stances, we no longer feel that the mainstream politics of the industry are agreeable to us."

The George Floyd spark very much "outed" Coinbase here, because it became an issue you couldn't avoid taking a side on. That's just the state of the world and you're right that they couldn't have anticipated it, but they chose to make a clear stance rather than trying to ride the thin line, and they became less diverse for it. I don't know why anyone would be surprised their prior actions match that recent stance.

Again, I'm trying to avoid the philosophical "Should companies be political" debate that's already been hashed, but simply stating how their actions translate in the current landscape.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#259

Post by cbthrow91 »

tptacek wrote: post #243
cbthrow91 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are omitting the fact that the one white employee switched to working out of the NYC office. There's no mention of a black employee making the same request and it being denied, just the request to wfh being denied for both white and black employees. And then you are extrapolating two uncorroborated anecdotes of inappropriate comments as evidence of widespread discrimination.

According to the article, the white employee was not required to relocate to NYC, but rather was allowed to continue to work from their home in Philadelphia. And, of course, the article has many more complaints than this one!

"Ms. Milosevich said the white employee lived in Philadelphia and was allowed to commute to and work from the company’s New York office"

Unless I am missing something seems pretty clear the employee switched from WFH in Philadelphia to commuting to NYC to work at that office.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#260

Post by ausbah »

frankly its a little surprising to me how quickly some people in this comment section are to instantly dismiss the experiences of the people in this article

yes the truth is shades of gray that article doesn't really give any answers to, but the unwillingness of others in these comments to even consider the possibility of some racism, discrimination, etc. experienced by others is just disheartening

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