Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

fair.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 488 posts

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#251

Post by zajio1am »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #132
BunsanSpace wrote: post #64

we already have a wealth tax. Have cash? Inflation (cheapens govt debt) Own Property? Property Taxes. Own Equity? capital gains on realization of profits Get Dividends? Dividends are taxed. Income? Taxed. Virtual every form of wealth is taxed. The question should be how much should it be taxed, and enforcement. A wealth tax is a nice song and dance around the issue and cannot be reasonably implemented hence why it's…

Inflation and property taxes are wealth taxes. Capital gains tax and tax on dividends is not.

Inflation is not really tax, more exogenous parameter of monetary system. It does not give much advantage to government (as expected inflation rate is accounted in bond rate).

Property tax would make more sense as a tax on limited resource than as a wealth tax.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#252

Post by mox1 »

aaaxyz wrote: post #200
coliveira wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so hidden in the debate that it is almost like a "secret". The more taxes you have on corporate income, the higher the incentive for corporations to invest in the company, so they can avoid paying taxes. This is good for the economy. On the other hand, lowering corporate taxes also generates a cascade of tax avoidance, since you have higher profits that generate the need for more complex tax avoidance schemes…

Would that explain why a lot of companies these days are doing stock buybacks?

Yes, it is considered more tax advantaged method of returning capitol to shareholders. Dividends get taxed as corporate profits, then again as income downstream. Buybacks are not taxed at either stage.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#253

Post by throwaway0a5e »

robrenaud wrote: post #227
czbond wrote: post #127

Near 50% of American pay zero federal tax. The top 10% of all Americans pay 69% of all federal taxes currently. This is a point 'left out' of current discussions. Instead of increasing entitlements or adding yet more taxes - we lower the size of the government spending UNTIL it matches where most people pay for the services received in a more scaled manner. Source: https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-inc…

Also, Buffets effective tax rate is lower than his secretary's tax rate. The gap between the rich and poor is growing, and has been doing so since 1980. r > g is the biggest long term problem facing capitalist democracies.

>Also, Buffets effective tax rate is lower than his secretary's tax rate.

That should be a lesson in how much of our taxation system is regressive not a lesson on how little Buffet is taxed.

Buffet and his secretary both pay a couple hundred dollars of tax to register their used cars or a couple dollars of tax on a pack of smokes or a couple tens of dollars fee for some government service or a buck here and there for toll roads and those things are a much larger fraction of the secretary's income. The less you make the more these "fixed fee" taxes screw you.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#254

Post by ivalm »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #186
munk-a wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty clear that corporate re-investment going up is good for the economy, perhaps looking at the equivalent lengths countries go to draw excess investment money from the international market in is a decent example - or maybe the WPA in the US where the government artificially injected money into employment to restart the economy.

It's not like the money leaving the corporation doesn't get invested in something else. I could very easily see the how higher rate lead to less innovation since the money is all tied up in mega corps.

Often time it leaves corporations simply to inflate the price of assets, which is not productive. While we have been lowering taxes past many decades the velocity of money has gone down.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#255

Post by golergka »

tonystubblebine wrote: post #6

As a business owner, when taxes are low, I see that as an incentive to pocket profits. But when taxes are high, I see that as an incentive to hide the profits by investing in the future. I know this isn't always the case with everyone. And especially investors have a case that higher corporate taxes reduce the value of their investments, possibly to the point of not making them. But this incentive is so blatantly obv…

> As a business owner

You're already a business owner. You're faced with decisions on what to do with an already existing business, not whether to start a new business, and in what state or country to do that.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#256

Post by dcre »

czbond wrote: post #194
Jtsummers wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Near 50% of American pay zero federal tax. The top 10% of all Americans pay 69% of all federal taxes currently. This is a point 'left out' of current discussions. Nearly 50% pay no federal income tax. It's worth making that statement precise in this case, because saying they pay no federal tax is just a lie.

Federal income tax is what matters. So yes, everyone pays some sales tax, some property tax, FICA, etc. But what matters is income tax (for individuals).

Why?

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#257

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

kart23 wrote: post #179

Wealth tax unconstitutionality is not some 'dream'. I think that a wealth tax is a great idea, but I dont see any good way of implementing it. The constitution (16th amendment) only specifically allows for income taxes, not property taxes. What makes the famous carriage tax legal is that its a tax on consumption and spending, and is therefore not a direct tax. The carriage tax was never argued to be a property tax, t…

Why can't there just be a new amendment? Income tax was "unconstitutional" before the 16th amendment, right?

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#258

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st »

czbond wrote: post #194
Jtsummers wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Near 50% of American pay zero federal tax. The top 10% of all Americans pay 69% of all federal taxes currently. This is a point 'left out' of current discussions. Nearly 50% pay no federal income tax. It's worth making that statement precise in this case, because saying they pay no federal tax is just a lie.

Federal income tax is what matters. So yes, everyone pays some sales tax, some property tax, FICA, etc. But what matters is income tax (for individuals).

Income tax appears to be half of the federal taxes that are taken in. Payroll is the other major one.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/policy-basics-wher...

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#259

Post by mullingitover »

czbond wrote: post #228
tw04 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you lump it up to top 10%. The top 1% of Americans pay 37% of the tax burden yet own over 60% of the wealth. They are grossly underpaying. Cutting entitlements and putting MORE of a financial burden on people who have nothing isn't going to fix the problem. AT BEST it'll result in massive social unrest and the end of the American Experiment. "I know you can't afford healthcare, and can barely afford food,…

A person is a person, fair and square to be treated equal - until we can extract more from ones pocketbook.

I would look at it as the surcharge on protecting a person's wealth. A person with no wealth doesn't need to have their wealth protected. A person with a great deal of wealth enjoys the benefits of taxation, having their wealth protected from the starving mobs outside their estate.

Re: Media Owned by Wealthy Are Quick to Tell You Wealth Taxes Are a Bad Idea

#260

Post by SilasX »

coliveira wrote: post #53
tonystubblebine wrote: post #6

As a business owner, when taxes are low, I see that as an incentive to pocket profits. But when taxes are high, I see that as an incentive to hide the profits by investing in the future. I know this isn't always the case with everyone. And especially investors have a case that higher corporate taxes reduce the value of their investments, possibly to the point of not making them. But this incentive is so blatantly obv…

This is so hidden in the debate that it is almost like a "secret". The more taxes you have on corporate income, the higher the incentive for corporations to invest in the company, so they can avoid paying taxes. This is good for the economy. On the other hand, lowering corporate taxes also generates a cascade of tax avoidance, since you have higher profits that generate the need for more complex tax avoidance schemes…

>The more taxes you have on corporate income, the higher the incentive for corporations to invest in the company, so they can avoid paying taxes.

And the lower the incentive to make new investments.

And the higher the incentive to engage in socially wasteful tax-avoidance accounting.

Post reply on HN