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How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

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Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying that the whole industry will be replaced, just that tech stacks might change, paradigms might change (see going from mainframes to PCs) etc. It would suck to find yourself unemployable in your mid-50's, let's say. It also kind of sucks to always have to keep up with the newest trends - perhaps at some point in your life you would actually want to do smth else than program all the time. In a world of atomiz…

I think the political power argument is both the best and worst reason for union membership: In my opinion, democracy is basically dead unless you can raise a lot of cash and use it to force your issues. So you're either disenfranchised or you're a billionaire or you're part of a group like a union that can raise cash and use it for things you care about. That's a good argument to be in a union. Or it would be, excep…

> We haven't had pro-worker legislation in decades as far as I can tell. I don't know why unions are so bad at this as (at least IMHO) it seems like a core responsibility AND a major selling point.

Unions were never as powerful as the capitalist elites. All worker rights were hard-won (often with the price of life) and there has always been a lot of counter-pressure from capitalists. For a while, following the New Deal (in the US) and WW2 globally, workers had a social context that favored them a little.

Starting with the Reagan-Thatcher era though, political power has shifted rapidly in favor of capital. Neo-liberal ideology has become the dominant intellectual lens through which ("well educated") people evaluate the world. Policy makers have likewise shifted greatly towards the right-wing. New Labour in the UK [1] and the New Democrats [2] in the US are essentially center-right groups. Actual leftist positions are considered fringe in the Western World nowadays. This has in turn greatly affected the political power of unions, which are historically left-wing movements.

Leftist movements can gain ground as long as the people with actual power are somewhat amenable to their goals. This hasn't been the case in about 4 decades.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Labour [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#252
For UK readers: consider joining the 100-year-old Prospect union

https://prospect.org.uk/about/who-are-prospect/

> more than 145,000 members who work as scientists, engineers, tech experts and in other specialist roles.

I see it simply as something of an "insurance policy" in case bad stuff happens - I feel this is especially useful to have this as backup as Brexit and the fall-out from COVID are on the horizon...

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#253
post #3

I find this interesting because I don't fully understand how tech became so opposed to unions. Many in our industry are quite jaded about the poor behavior of large corporations. Perhaps there are also reasons to be distrustful of unions. But mostly we accept working with or doing business with the former, and entirely eschewing the latter. Why have we decided that untrustworthy, sometimes poorly managed organization…

This is what you'll get with unions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5a_00YVVkQ&feature=youtu.be... My experience with unions. Monitor breaks at CES. Go get another, try to carry to booth. Get stopped because "only union people are allowed to carry equipment inside the convention center". Try to plug in some equipment. Get stopped because "only union electricians are allowed to plug in equipment in the convention cen…

That's a fantastic video. I'm commenting mostly to save the link for later, but I cannot imagine unions trying to mesh with the tech world.

Can you imagine having a "frontend developers union" which disallowed backend work (or vice versa)? What a nightmare.

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#254
post #3

I find this interesting because I don't fully understand how tech became so opposed to unions. Many in our industry are quite jaded about the poor behavior of large corporations. Perhaps there are also reasons to be distrustful of unions. But mostly we accept working with or doing business with the former, and entirely eschewing the latter. Why have we decided that untrustworthy, sometimes poorly managed organization…

This is what you'll get with unions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5a_00YVVkQ&feature=youtu.be... My experience with unions. Monitor breaks at CES. Go get another, try to carry to booth. Get stopped because "only union people are allowed to carry equipment inside the convention center". Try to plug in some equipment. Get stopped because "only union electricians are allowed to plug in equipment in the convention cen…

Sure there are some horror stories about unions, but you are just generalizing. And you are talking about "old" institutions ; new unions, for "new" kind of companies would not look the same.

Having an organization that can help a worker that is abused, or giving more bargaining power to workers seems clearly positive for the worker.

That could be a bit more irritating for the top management ... But the German example (strong unions, 50% of employee representation on the supervisory boards of large corporations) shows it tend to be, overall, positive for the companies.

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#255
post #3

I find this interesting because I don't fully understand how tech became so opposed to unions. Many in our industry are quite jaded about the poor behavior of large corporations. Perhaps there are also reasons to be distrustful of unions. But mostly we accept working with or doing business with the former, and entirely eschewing the latter. Why have we decided that untrustworthy, sometimes poorly managed organization…

This is what you'll get with unions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5a_00YVVkQ&feature=youtu.be... My experience with unions. Monitor breaks at CES. Go get another, try to carry to booth. Get stopped because "only union people are allowed to carry equipment inside the convention center". Try to plug in some equipment. Get stopped because "only union electricians are allowed to plug in equipment in the convention cen…

You can implement anything crap. I feel like you're just taking the worst possible example of a union and using that to state that unionization is awful.

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#259
post #3

I find this interesting because I don't fully understand how tech became so opposed to unions. Many in our industry are quite jaded about the poor behavior of large corporations. Perhaps there are also reasons to be distrustful of unions. But mostly we accept working with or doing business with the former, and entirely eschewing the latter. Why have we decided that untrustworthy, sometimes poorly managed organization…

Especially the video game industry should take a good long look at how Hollywood uses guilds to create saner work conditions for its various production crew. It's a very different thing to work at a 'stable' company with sustained engineering and maintenance, and then getting hired for part of a project at a one-big-project-ever-two-years production company, that might not exist a couple years from now. The sooner the games industry realizes they are actually in the latter category and organize accordingly, the better. Then maybe we can stop having these horror stories of mass layoffs when production ends, that comes from thinking you are in the former category.

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what you'll get with unions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5a_00YVVkQ&feature=youtu.be... My experience with unions. Monitor breaks at CES. Go get another, try to carry to booth. Get stopped because "only union people are allowed to carry equipment inside the convention center". Try to plug in some equipment. Get stopped because "only union electricians are allowed to plug in equipment in the convention cen…

Sure there are some horror stories about unions, but you are just generalizing. And you are talking about "old" institutions ; new unions, for "new" kind of companies would not look the same. Having an organization that can help a worker that is abused, or giving more bargaining power to workers seems clearly positive for the worker. That could be a bit more irritating for the top management ... But the German exampl…

People could organize a European style union for software engineers right now in USA if they wanted, but they aren't doing it. Instead they are still pushing for US style unions like they did at Kickstarter. The only reason I can think of why they are doing this is that they want the extra power that comes with US style unions instead of the more worker friendly EU style unions.
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