Even in the US it doesnt ring true to many, many people. And I am not just talking about privileged white people not seeing the point, the people spreading these PC views on everyone are a minority and are the same ones always playing the victim, bitching and complaining for one reason or another.
Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens
251–260 of 394 posts
Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, that isn't racist at all. Unfortunate, an injustice, a tragedy, a disaster, a systemic failure to integrate, yes. But racist? You're going to have to spell that one out for me. Aboriginal people just commit more crime. That isn't racist. Thats a symptom of a problem that predates most of us sitting here in our armchairs. Talk about the real problem not the symptom, but whatever you do, don't start calling all whi…
> Aboriginal people just commit more crime. That isn't racist. Er... that sounds incredibly racist?
I find it really illogical to say some statement is racist because it lay out tendency of certain race having certain weakness.
Racist is a race discrimination. Race discrimination is when you are treated differently because of your race.
https://equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/race-...
Skin color is not the reason of a certain person to have certain ability, or certain moral standard.
"Aboriginal people just commit more crime." is a factual statement about how many aboriginal people committing crime. It could be true or false. If the statement is "Aboriginal people just commit more crime, because they are aboriginal", then it is racist because it draws a causal relationship of race and crime rate which is completely false.
Nowadays, from a statement of "Aboriginal people just commit more crime.", someone can see through the proposer's mind to assume he has stereotype impression on aboriginal people and inside his/her mind, the proposer thinks because of people's skin color, they will just magically commit more crime. So, it is concluded that the proposer is racist. This is thought crime, and law should assume people is innocent until proven in case of criminal law.
It is really bad, because it does not let people to lay out the data based on race, and therefore cannot solve the real problem behind it. Why a specific race would commit more crime in a country? There must be a reason behind it. Maybe only one community with majority of a specific race committing most of the crime, and other communities of that race are completely normal. Then you have to further find the reason why that community committing so many crime etc.
However, the left in America does not think like that. They just get a aggregate data of the country and lay out many disadvantage of certain race facing, and so it can justify minority group to victimize themselves.
A term systematic racism is coined. If there is no equal outcome for each race then the society is racist. No active actors of racist is involved. The system itself is designed which cause non equal outcome among races and therefore must be overthrown and replaced with a non racist system.
The whole idea is just giving up thinking analytically about the root cause of non equal outcome and blame it all to the society. If there is not enough educational resource because the state is consist of mainly poor blacks, then just let the rich state to subsidize the poor state. Rejecting better grade non-black is just solving the problem by a racist measure which is not moral. And it is also racist against the black because it implied black are just dumber, and I find it strange for black to accept that. No, because they are poor and does not have enough educational resource.
I think the America left is so irrational that it starts to be very similar to Soviet Union style of thinking.
PS: Not-White. Just a observation from other race outside America.
Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean it sometimes is, and your categorical rejection of it is just weird.
> I mean it sometimes is Trying to think of an example of it being a problem, but am drawing a blank. Any ideas?
A common example would be profiting from cultural developments or ideas from cultures that had been historically looked down upon or disadvantaged by your own, particularly when doing so in a disrespectful manner.
For example – a white European artist designing fabrics and prints with traditionally African patterns, without acknowledging the contribution or involving members of that community, would sit uneasily with me. Using one's inherent advantages to profit from the culture of others who don't have access to the same opportunities is something I object to people doing.
This idea in no way prevents people from mixing and incorporating cultural ideas and concepts themselves, or participating in those cultures.
Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean it sometimes is, and your categorical rejection of it is just weird.
No, it really isn't. American I presume? You have full rights to use elements of our culture from this here part of Europe (not that you ever asked our permission, you use them anyway. But it's not like we care either...).
No, your presumption is wrong and I'm Scottish.
Everybody has the absolute right to use elements of others' cultures – and using them in a disrespectful or exploitative manner is something that I find distasteful and think its reasonable to object to.
Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your perception that in the US "black and white people live different lives and mixing is frowned upon" seems like it's been heavily influenced by some less-than-honest talking points. The idea that the UK is an oasis of racial harmony versus a segregationist USA is pretty far from the truth.
Not that far I'd say. While the British have their nazis and everything in moderation, at least they're not generally 24/7 preoccupied with race. (They are however preoccupied with class a lot).
at least they're not generally 24/7 preoccupied with race
1. Not true of Americans, and
2. Probably a newsflash to all the British people who are subject to discrimination on the basis of race.
British views and issues around race are different from American ones. The article has value, because this point is important and often missed – even if it's not new.
But too many people in the UK use this idea as a "harrumph here in good old Blighty we're above all this American racism nonsense" and give themselves a good pat on the back while ignoring our entirely different and still serious problems.
Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens
#256> but that doesn't mean we don't have racism Absolutely right! We do have racism. But "systemic racism" is on a whole another level in US. It's in the system means "you can be shot and killed just because you are of some ethnicity" by those that sworn to protect and serve. I'm scared only thinking about it. I would live in constant fear. Plus, it is true that Europe society is not racism free, it is also true that US…
> But "systemic racism" is on a whole another level in US. You have a very skewed view of race relations in the US. Racist police is a popular media narrative, but it's not backed up by evidence. Cops are more likely to kill a white fugitive then a black one; black cops are just as likely to kill as white cops; many victims of police violence are white; etc...
> Racist police is a popular media narrative, but it's not backed up by evidence.
What I posted earlier IS evidence.
It comes from official statistics
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/
Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites
I imagined people from the US knew their country better than me, that am from Italy, where police doesn't kill us anyway, regardless of the colour of our skin, and in those rare cases when it happens, because sometimes it happens here too, nobody take the killer's side.
If we needed more proof on what's wrong in US culture, your line of thinking - or should I call it bury the head in the sand? - is one.
Genuine question: what would it take for you to admit it?
I mean, if you tell me "in Italy you have mafia" I would answer, "yes, and I am ashamed of it".
I wouldn't try to hide it, like you tried to do with the police brutality in your country (large part of the system racism in US is the fact that some ethnicities are more in danger of being killed or victimized by the police, having their lives and careers prospects ruined forever).
Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Aboriginal people just commit more crime. That isn't racist. Er... that sounds incredibly racist?
It's a fact. How can a fact be racist?
It's the literal definition of racism: "the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities."
By saying "Aboriginal people just commit more crime" you are declaring that race is a relevant factor in someone's propensity to commit crime.
Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens
#258In addition to the entirety of the author's examples and experiences, we need to recall that the UK/British view of race is heavily influenced by the fact that skin color is not the only way in which folks in the UK experience racial discrimination. For centuries, the Scottish and Irish natives have been variously oppressed by the British, creating a racial context which is distinct from one wholly concerned with ski…
Would you mind stop overloading the word racist with more definitions? People can be nationalists or biased towards group identities with many different flavors. The underlying issue is that people get discriminated. And besides, the Brits are a very mature ethnic identity, as such, they've had many centuries to come up with and nourish many different ways to discriminate - be it which village you come from, what sch…
>Would you mind stop overloading the word racist with more definitions? People can be nationalists or biased towards group identities with many different flavors. The underlying issue is that people get discriminated.
I completely agree. I prefer 'bigotry' rather than 'racism'.
Mostly for the reasons you suggest, but also that 'racism' is a nonsensical term in the context of biology. Homo Sapiens is a single species.
As such, one could be racist against dolphins or dogs or daffodils, but not humans.
But we can still hate and be bigoted against those who don't look or talk or dress or act like "us."
Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
Facts taken out of context can obviously be racist. > Aboriginal people just commit more crime More crime than who ? More crime than " Normal " people? Or, More crime than all other groups with the same economic opportunieis? More crime than groups with the same health issues? More crime than other people who go blind from trachoma and trichiasis despite it no longer being a public health problem in any other develop…
> Facts taken out of context can obviously be racist. A fact is a statement about reality. It can induce racism, but cannot be racist in itself. Facts are scientific, and science is not political. > More crime than who? Of non-Aboriginal people. > Or, More crime than all other groups with the same economic opportunities? Maybe or maybe not. That is beside the point. If you compare incarceration rates of Aboriginal an…
Statistics can absolutely be both racist and inaccurate, because you can choose which numbers to highlight, or how to slice and dice your data. Simpson's Paradox is a perfect example of how you can bucket data to show a trend that is the opposite of reality.