Won’t Subscribe • Hacker News Board

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#251

Post by rmtech » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:33 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #242

rmtech wrote: post #233

This article is self-refuting. People are creatures of habit, and as long as the banks allow you to "subscribe" in a way that makes it really, really hard to "unsubscribe", the subscription model will continue winning. The very idea of a subscription needs to die in order for content to be sold piecemeal. Having said that, I am about to start a substack to get my own crowd of subscribers. BECAUSE IT MAKES ECONOMIC SE…

> as long as the banks allow you to "subscribe" in a way that makes it really, really hard to "unsubscribe" I am very quick to subscribe to patreon and through Google Play because I know I can unsubscribe through those platforms. I won't touch newspapers unless they're through another subscription provider. > I don't want to have to keep re-selling myself if I can possibly avoid it. It's time efficient to switch to b…

> Subscriptions only work when I trust you both as a payment processor (so that excludes newspapers) and if you're already established as a trustable content creator.

Sure, but once you have made a name for yourself you want subscribers, which is why Patreon/Substack/etc allow people to subscribe rather than allowing them to either buy/not buy each piece of content. Every seller wants the consumer to default to paying them forever, rather than paying once and then having to make an active decision to pay again. (And before you have made a name for yourself, you don't sell your content at all, you give it away for free)

Control over the "default" behavior is just incredibly powerful. Creators are not going to give it up.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#252

Post by CivBase » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:33 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #202

bigiain wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I see it amongst my friends, who're gradually all moving to "pay for a subscription to something, to salve the 'I'm not a pirate!' conscience, and go back to BitTorrent and shared/private Emby server networks for anything you want to watch that's not on the service you're paying for".

In 2003 Valve determined that piracy, then rampant in PC gaming, was a service problem. They built Steam to provide a better service than piracy. Years later, after Steam has all but eliminated PC game piracy and helped create a thriving market even for the niche-est of genres, their competitors complain about their de-facto monopoly. There's a lesson in here somewhere.

On that note, is there anything like Steam for movies and TV shows? I would love a platform where I could make a one-time payment for perpetual access to a movie or season of a show at a reasonable price.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#253

Post by Fnoord » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:34 PM UTC

Well said. The [rest of the] streaming business (audio such as Spotify, and video such as Netflix) suffers from the same problem.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#254

Post by debaserab2 » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

dmurray wrote: post #225

mikelward wrote: post #10

> “But wait,” says Mr Manager, “you already subscribe to five publications, so you’ve proved you have a propensity to subscribe! You’re exactly my target market!” Wrong. It’s exactly because I’ve done some subscribing that I’m just not gonna do any more. Exactly. Same thing is happening with cable unbundling. Few people want to subscribe to Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, HBO, ESPN+, Disney+, Peacock, and YouTube TV/Sli…

It's just not true though. You could use the same argument after he'd already subscribed to four publications: should the Vancouver Sun not have bothered trying to get him to subscribe because he's already done some subscribing and is obviously "not gonna do any more"? Of course not. He really was their target market. And I'd be willing to bet within a year he'll have subscribed to content from another publisher, pos…

You don't think there's any kind of limit that most people will reach?

I know I have the same cable unbundling problem and have mentally decided that the maximum amount of subscriptions I will have is 4. If I want to subscribe to a new one, I find the one I'm using the least and unsubscribe from it first before adding another.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#255

Post by mojo982 » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:36 PM UTC

CivBase wrote: post #246

I wonder if there's any opportunity for a "YouTube Red" of journalism where users are charged a monthly subscription for access to many content networks and the revenue from their subscription is distributed to the networks based on which ones the users engaged with most. I'm not sure how you could measure that engagement, though.

Kinda like this? https://scroll.com/

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#256

Post by _fat_santa » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #202

bigiain wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I see it amongst my friends, who're gradually all moving to "pay for a subscription to something, to salve the 'I'm not a pirate!' conscience, and go back to BitTorrent and shared/private Emby server networks for anything you want to watch that's not on the service you're paying for".

In 2003 Valve determined that piracy, then rampant in PC gaming, was a service problem. They built Steam to provide a better service than piracy. Years later, after Steam has all but eliminated PC game piracy and helped create a thriving market even for the niche-est of genres, their competitors complain about their de-facto monopoly. There's a lesson in here somewhere.

It seems that both Steam and Spotify addressed this by becoming the dominant player in their space. Yes there are alternatives to Steam on PC and there are alternatives to Spotify, but those two have the vast majority of the content you are looking for.

Video streaming was like that for a while. You had Netflix and it was the king in town, but then all the other services started to roll in and take their content off Netflix.

I find it to be this wired tug of war between buisneses and consumers. On the one hand as a consumer you almost want a monopoly in the space as all your favorite shows or music will be on one platform (like Spotify). But we all hate monopolies so from the business side you would want healthy competition. The problem is that "healthy competition" means you now have to subscribe to 10 services instead of 1.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#257

Post by _fat_santa » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

CivBase wrote: post #252

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2003 Valve determined that piracy, then rampant in PC gaming, was a service problem. They built Steam to provide a better service than piracy. Years later, after Steam has all but eliminated PC game piracy and helped create a thriving market even for the niche-est of genres, their competitors complain about their de-facto monopoly. There's a lesson in here somewhere.

On that note, is there anything like Steam for movies and TV shows? I would love a platform where I could make a one-time payment for perpetual access to a movie or season of a show at a reasonable price.

iTunes?

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#258

Post by inatreecrown2 » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

boplicity wrote: post #19

As a long-time publisher, there is only one primary metric that matters to me: loyal readers. I don't publish for the occasional visitor. I publish for the loyal readers that I have worked hard to cultivate, engage, and enrichen. The primary work is one of building a relationship with a loyal readership, based on consistency and quality. Our websites, as they're designed, are probably a little annoying to people who…

this got to be a parody?

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#259

Post by srg0 » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

I can get that publishers may not see profitable selling access to individual articles. I can get they don't want to sell an individual issue like they used to sell paper copies. I can understand they have annual RPU target so short-term subscriptions are off the table. But not offering an option of a limited time subscription without auto-renewal is a scam.

Auto-renewal should be an opt-in. Unsubscribing should not require a phone call. Then we may talk loyal subscribers and how publishers are actually the good guys.

Recently I avoid any CC subscriptions and subscribe exclusively through PayPal. And as the first payment goes through, I cancel automatic payments.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#260

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 2:47 PM UTC

CivBase wrote: post #246

I wonder if there's any opportunity for a "YouTube Red" of journalism where users are charged a monthly subscription for access to many content networks and the revenue from their subscription is distributed to the networks based on which ones the users engaged with most. I'm not sure how you could measure that engagement, though.

[deleted]