How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes • Hacker News Board

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#251

Post by dannyw » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 3:20 AM UTC

gjm11 wrote: post #116

dannyw wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should consider the actual quantified risk to you and the community. For someone living alone for example and going to work drinks with 5 people, your risk of contracting COVID is very small. Your chance of developing serious complications from COVID is also very small. Your chance of spreading COVID to others, should you isolate once you develop symptoms, is also small. I highly recommend you research th…

> people our age So far as I can see, cheschire didn't say anything to indicate their age. Careful with those assumptions!

Sorry, my apologies!

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#252

Post by flemhans » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 4:19 AM UTC

As a "people pleaser" I for one didn't click with this article.

Yes, I do say yes to most every one request one asks me to. Including favours people might ask me to do.

I do what ever people ask, and it's a blissful joy. I'm happy to service and I'm happy to have so many friends.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#253

Post by flemhans » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 4:20 AM UTC

flemhans wrote: post #252

As a "people pleaser" I for one didn't click with this article. Yes, I do say yes to most every one request one asks me to. Including favours people might ask me to do. I do what ever people ask, and it's a blissful joy. I'm happy to service and I'm happy to have so many friends.

Edit; Some people asked and yes I'm "super-rich". :P

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#254

Post by watwut » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 6:28 AM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #248

mistersquid wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most powerful thing about words is the power the listener gives them. Human beings are neurologically wired to biologically respond to communication from other beings. A classic example is nursing women who express milk when hearing a baby cry. There are many other examples of involuntary responses to environmental stimulus, much of which include human communication. Loud noises cause involuntarily muscular res…

I have much now control over my thoughts and feelings in response to words than I used to. Here, for example, almost ridiculously, I felt a moment of anger that someone who so clearly had missed my point would so confidently respond with examples that are not relevant to it. That lasted a microsecond. I've learned to tell myself a different story. You're not being properly obtuse, your actually have a different set o…

> You're not being properly obtuse, your actually have a different set of life experiences and intuitions than I do, and that leads you to interpret my words in a way that I didn't intend.

Intentionally obtuse people exists. Intentionally obtuse responses exist and are not rare. Treating them as good faith does not work and just gives them more power. You change situation into innocent one and that is different topic.

> If you call me a racial slur, and I honestly don't give a shit, what power do you have over me?

If I call you racial slur, I have reason for that. It is likely that I want to let you know that your kind including you is not welcome in this team, company, street, whatever. It is first warning and if you stay, expect to deal with my hostility (direct or passive aggressive or purely behind back). It also means I am more likely to be creating narratives in my head to use against you behind your back.

So, if you call me racial slur, what power you have? Is this the first sign I would watch out for hostility and to watch my back from you? Is this sign you will be biased while evaluating my work? Biased evaluation is super hard to prove or recognize before it does damage, pretty often it just lowers targets confidence in first stages.

Are you being intentionally hostile and if I stay near you, you will escalate? Racial slur is hostility and if I don't notice first hostile signs, I am more at risk.

Are you a colleague I need to cooperate with, now knowing you take me as lesser? Will I be blamed if that cooperation fails? Or someone whose explanations and answers I need? Are you a manager? Or, are we in a bar and this means I better leave? Are you a cop and this is first warning that my rights are at risk?

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#255

Post by ritchiea » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 6:37 AM UTC

tristor wrote: post #246

ritchiea wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not whataboutism because the fact that the value of free speech was only granted to a privileged few addresses your argument that the USA once valued free speech and things have changed. If free speech was only granted to a privileged few why should we ever think of it as some societal value that was lost? It appears to me that the privileged few that saw themselves in the demographic gifted free speech are the…

> It appears to me that the privileged few that saw themselves in the demographic gifted free speech are the the people who are angry their speech is criticized. Free speech is a civil right, as civil rights have grown in the US it has been extended to those that civil rights have grown to encompass. It's not just the privileged few (or even the privileged majority) that are angry about a loss of this social more. >…

Who are these people that have been punished for speech? It seems to me more a boogeyman of “if I say X, people will not like it” which is normal, sometimes people find some ideas repugnant, than a real scare.

And yes I am using a relatively broad definition of powerful, I’m not talking Bezos etc in the 0.01%, I’m talking more upper middle class and up mostly white men. Who maybe are not correctly defined as the powerful but they are traditionally the people protected by law & USA cultural norms (which isn’t power in the traditional sense of political power or wealth but means quite a bit in one’s day-to-day life).

And one more time to say the original counter argument of mine again, if there was free speech explain to me COINTELPRO.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#256

Post by ritchiea » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 6:51 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #250

ritchiea wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with being kind and speaking to people with respect while you disagree with them? One of the big problems with the "politically incorrect" or "radical free speech" crowd is that your words can hurt people's feeling. And your tone can hurt people's feelings. And there's no good reason to tell someone "fuck off" when you can politely say no other than maybe you have things you're angry about that you haven…

This comment and your other comments downthread are crossing into personal attack. Please don't do that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Can you explain to me the personal attack because I’m not seeing it. And I’ve been a commenting member of this community for about a decade so I believe I have something of an understanding of HN.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#257

Post by dang » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 7:02 AM UTC

ritchiea wrote: post #256

dang wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment and your other comments downthread are crossing into personal attack. Please don't do that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Can you explain to me the personal attack because I’m not seeing it. And I’ve been a commenting member of this community for about a decade so I believe I have something of an understanding of HN.

Your comment took the form of making judgments about someone's personal issues ("you haven't figured out how to deal with your anger issue") and psychologically commenting about them. That's much, much too personally provocative. The odds of it landing well with a person you're talking to on the internet round to zero. It's also incongruent with a defense of "being kind and speaking to people with respect".

To be fair, it's not clear whether you meant the word "you" to be Natales or anyone-in-general. But that nuance is probably going to get lost on people reading the comment, especially the particular person you're talking to. Also, your other comments downthread made it clearer that you were indeed talking about Natales personally, and also that you were inclined to attack other users (e.g. "would that make you feel better", "You clearly have a narrow view").

I know you've been a member of HN for a long time. You're a great HN user!

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#258

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 7:11 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #257

ritchiea wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain to me the personal attack because I’m not seeing it. And I’ve been a commenting member of this community for about a decade so I believe I have something of an understanding of HN.

Your comment took the form of making judgments about someone's personal issues ("you haven't figured out how to deal with your anger issue") and psychologically commenting about them. That's much, much too personally provocative. The odds of it landing well with a person you're talking to on the internet round to zero. It's also incongruent with a defense of "being kind and speaking to people with respect". To be fai…

[deleted]

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#259

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 7:14 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #258

dang wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment took the form of making judgments about someone's personal issues ("you haven't figured out how to deal with your anger issue") and psychologically commenting about them. That's much, much too personally provocative. The odds of it landing well with a person you're talking to on the internet round to zero. It's also incongruent with a defense of "being kind and speaking to people with respect". To be fai…

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#260

Post by ritchiea » Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 7:17 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #257

ritchiea wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain to me the personal attack because I’m not seeing it. And I’ve been a commenting member of this community for about a decade so I believe I have something of an understanding of HN.

Your comment took the form of making judgments about someone's personal issues ("you haven't figured out how to deal with your anger issue") and psychologically commenting about them. That's much, much too personally provocative. The odds of it landing well with a person you're talking to on the internet round to zero. It's also incongruent with a defense of "being kind and speaking to people with respect". To be fai…

I definitely was speaking about “the group of people who believe free speech is under attack” and “the group of people who feel like they shouldn’t have to be polite to others” but I understand how that can be misinterpreted.

And thanks for the compliment :)