Why is Apple acting like an asshole? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#251

Post by chipotle_coyote » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

nlitened wrote: post #92

pojntfx wrote: post #3

Honestly, this is why we need the Web. But Apple even blocks that since they don’t allow any browser engine apart from Safari, meaning that there is no - Add to homescreen dialog - Background sync - Proper push notifications - Proper WASM support (a lot of features are missing) Honestly, at this point, the government should step in, like they did at the end of the last century with Microsoft. Walled gardens hurt inno…

Why wouldn't you use Android then? I would personally like to continue paying higher prices to protect myself from low-quality background-syncing byte-code-obfuscated web-pages with push notifications, please.

Safari on macOS supports push notifications and it hasn't intrinsically been a bad thing -- at worst, I have to tell a web site "no, I don't want your notifications." They're opt-in rather than opt-out like native app notifications are. The higher prices you and I are paying aren't protecting us from "low-quality" notifications as it is, anyway.

At any rate, maybe you're so worried about single-page web apps being bad actors that you're happy Apple so severely hamstrings them, but I... just can't see a lot to worry about there. And if Apple let PWAs be even a little better on iOS than they are now, it would go at least some distance toward ameliorating complaints about the App Store.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#252

Post by Wowfunhappy » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #224

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Breaking up your question into two pieces: > How many apps [could] be viable as a website if only iOS Safari had push notifications[?] I’d say a lot. > [How many of them] would actually bring in any significant amount of revenue? Adding this caveat doesn’t change my answer—but I really don’t like what it's implying. Software is not suddenly without value just because it doesn’t make money.

> I’d say a lot Yet you didn’t name any. If that were the case, you should be able to name the equivalent web apps on Android that must be apps on iOS. > Software is not suddenly without value just because it doesn’t make money. So where are those “valuable” web apps on Android? Also revenue is the most objective way to measure value.

> Yet you didn’t name any.

Reddit, Trello, Twitter. Probably Discord and Slack too.

I haven't used Android in years but I certainly don't see why these wouldn't work as web apps if you had push notifications. All the functionality is there.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#253

Post by MBCook » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

Doesn’t the watch come out on Friday? With watchOS 7? Which requires iOS 14?

It sounds like due to hardware they were going to have to release iOS 14 in a day or two.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#254

Post by fanatic2pope » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

Looking at the author's github profile gives a pretty clear answer. You are dependent on Apple, they are not dependent on you.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#255

Post by saagarjha » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #219

spiderfarmer wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large amount of apps could just be a website if Apple supported more API’s. It would also bring bigger budgets to webdev teams and improve the quality of their webapps.

Care to name some web apps that are successful on Android but are required to be apps on iOS?

You've got it wrong, because Android has much looser review policies so these apps don't have to be web pages on that platform. People (including Apple!) push web apps on iOS to not be subject to App Store review.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#256

Post by arendtio » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

nlitened wrote: post #92

pojntfx wrote: post #3

Honestly, this is why we need the Web. But Apple even blocks that since they don’t allow any browser engine apart from Safari, meaning that there is no - Add to homescreen dialog - Background sync - Proper push notifications - Proper WASM support (a lot of features are missing) Honestly, at this point, the government should step in, like they did at the end of the last century with Microsoft. Walled gardens hurt inno…

Why wouldn't you use Android then? I would personally like to continue paying higher prices to protect myself from low-quality background-syncing byte-code-obfuscated web-pages with push notifications, please.

This answer is wrong on so many levels...

I don't know why Apple is allowed to keep other browser engines out of their system, but probably just because the relevant people just don't understand that the Chrome/FF/etc. on iOS are just a Safari with a different UI and that it gives Apple about half (depending on country; in the US probably more) of the mobile browser share and users just the chance to either use Android or be stuck with Safari.

In addition, the author obviously doesn't know that the before mentioned push notification API is not just used for regular push notifications, but is also required for other use-cases like messengers for example.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#257

Post by spideymans » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

lern_too_spel wrote: post #177

Razengan wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no - Add to homescreen dialog - Background sync - Proper push notifications All of those sound like things that will be abused by the majority of developers the minute they are allowed to inflict them upon users, either willingly or commanded to by their overlords in the name of ""Engagement""

I have not seen these things abused yet. The user agent prevents it.

There are already countless websites abusing the web notifications API to push spam to end users. You're probably savvy enough to effortlessly avoid it, but the average end user often is not. We can't keep ignoring the the UX issues with a lot of these web APIs if we want them to be successful. Users don't care to philosophize about the open web, they just want their shit to work. That's what Apple iOS is providing them, and they will continue flocking to iOS until they're presented with a better alternative.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#258

Post by Macha » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #245

temp667 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question - why are apple downloads slow - I don't get it. I've downloaded lots of stuff from google. Its rarely slow. I use cloudfront on AWS - also rarely slow. Apple - often slow. They have billions - is there something wrong with their caching layer at ISPs etc?

Mac mini's don't have fast NICs, and they're probably still unable to use the current Mac Pros for production reasons. The old Mac Pros keep rolling off the rack.

Apple is likely not using Mac hardware for the majority of their datacenters: https://www.quora.com/What-OS-used-on-the-servers-in-Apples-...

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#259

Post by josefrichter » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

I don’t understand. Current apps will run just fine, won’t they? Also beta versions of iOS and XCode have been around for months - so it’s not like you’re starting from scratch today. And it’s not like you absolutely must release tomorrow, do you?

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#260

Post by t-writescode » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #244

the8472 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and security updates at the mercy of terrible carriers. Buy the hardware, install lineageos, insert SIM?

Is LineageOS the most trustworthy aftermarket smartphone OS out there? What makes it so?

Aren't I still bound by a GMail account for login and contact information, so if Google randomly decides to ban my account (see what happened to the viewers of a Markiplier stream), I'm in trouble?