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How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

deprocrastination.co

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Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#251

Post by TeMPOraL »

im3w1l wrote: post #243
TeMPOraL wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feelings are complex. Personally, at any given time, I have two or three of sideprojects, videogames and TV shows I could focus on, each. But when I procrastinate, I end up reading HN or some subreddit or something similar, instead of coding my side projects or playing a game I've been waiting to play for the past year. I've traced that to feelings of guilt . I can't enjoy a videogame if I feel I'm only using it to e…

I'm kind of wondering if it's the brain's way of saying you should talk your problem over with other people. And HN is a sort of maladaptive (for various reasons) version of that.

Seeking counseling on HN is definitely a recurring trend here, one I've been guilty of too at times, so you may be onto something here!

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#252

Post by krono »

georgespencer wrote: post #213
krono wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very well written! Recently I was diagnosed with severe ADHD. The struggle finally became too much. Perhaps the effects of the health crisis on my work and finances gave me the final push, I don't know. My life is so much more enjoyable now I am medicated and have had some very minimal therapy. In hindsight all the tricks and strictness I forced onto myself to be able to keep up were very unhealthy, unsustainable, an…

So glad you're in a better place now. This: > To anyone else struggling: Just make that appointment and find out what's up. Even if it doesn't turn out to be ADHD these people can help you get so much more out of your life. Nothing ventured nothing gained, right? Is great advice and lots of people reading this thread are emailing me to say how supported they feel by hearing others' stories. Nice one for sharing.

Thanks, I really appreciate that! Good to know people are getting something out of this.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#253

Post by jlelonm »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #231
jw1224 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst furloughed from my job during lockdown, I found myself bouncing off the walls at home consistently enough to finally seek out the ADHD diagnosis I’ve always suspected. I’m 29 years old, and one of my earliest memories is of my parents (lovingly) threatening to put an electric fence around my seat at the dinner table. I’d be up and down like a yo-yo after each mouthful. For the last 5 years, “my friend” has bee…

28 years old and just got diagnosed. Do it - it makes a difference. I was amazed how much meds helped me. I'm far more productive doing tasks that are boring.

which meds are you taking?

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#254

Post by im3w1l »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #251
im3w1l wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of wondering if it's the brain's way of saying you should talk your problem over with other people. And HN is a sort of maladaptive (for various reasons) version of that.

Seeking counseling on HN is definitely a recurring trend here, one I've been guilty of too at times, so you may be onto something here!

Oh that's not what I meant, I was thinking of discussing something completely different, or only tangentially related. When you should be seeking counseling.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#255

Post by avindroth »

randomsearch wrote: post #215
avindroth wrote: post #158

The human mind is far more complex than a lot of these models or frameworks suggest. A model or a framework can mean any structured representation, but I am explicitly talking about the market of psychological frameworks. The ‘supply’ of that market consists of pretty bad models that do more harm than good (e.g. Mindset by Carol Dweck, CBT, Fogg Behavior Model, or anything based on behaviorism). I don’t recall fully,…

Why are growth mindsets bad? Challenging yourself seems pretty common sense no, the idea that you can get there.

Not only did it fail replication studies (as most psychology experiments do), but on a model analysis level it vastly oversimplifies things. The mind is a lot more complicated than growth vs. fixed mindset.

https://twitter.com/DegenRolf/status/1283631188608004097?s=2...

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#256

Post by georgespencer »

sharadov wrote: post #235
czbond wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why see a psychiatrist? Are those really things to 'fix' on the whole - given the upsides? I'm incredibly energetic. I can't sit down for long - so I just stand in meetings. TV is a waste of time, so is social small talk, I do what I care about (and it rewarded me well). I've just felt like the speed, risk tolerance, freedom it provides me, and intuition make a powerful combination. I'd say the ADHD (if it is) makes…

ADHD has a wide spectrum, people with real ADHD cannot function without medication ( speaking as a parent with a child who has it). Yes, without medication he would either be not focussed or hyper focussed. But, the biggest issue is lack of executive function, which is debilitating. And, no matter what, real life needs you to be able to follow instructions, and do things in order. If a 7 year old with a simple life c…

Thanks for sharing your experience. Really valuable to me and many others on here. A question and a quibble if that's OK:

> what the medication is doing is strengthening the neural connections, so that executive function becomes a habit, to the point where you don't need it. If you do it right 50% of people with ADHD won't need it.

I had understood that this only applied to children who are young enough to have developmental neuroplasticity. Is your understanding different? Appreciate your steer as it sounds like something you have understood in more detail than me.

Quibble:

> people with real ADHD

I don't think you mean to, but this is a little clumsy. As you say in the previous sentence, ADHD is a wide spectrum. You can have ADHD but function, there is no "real" ADHD, only various degrees of severity.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#257

Post by gentleman11 »

I tried Fogg's Tiny Habits once. The basic idea is that the easiest way to begin building up a habit is to start with a behavior that you have no resistance to.

Its basically a sound idea, but its an oversimplification. I am not sure what his "behaviour model" is but I assume it evolved from his previous work.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#258

Post by docent8 »

There's a great book called the Procrastination Equation that addresses this, and offers a different equation than Fogg.

Motivation = (Expectancy + Value) / (Impulsiveness + Delay)

It's useful to know what each of those terms means.

Your motivation is for a specific task or goal.

Expectancy is your confidence that you can complete a task or reach the goal.

Value is the importance you assign to the goal.

Impulsiveness is how distractable you are, or your susceptibility to other interesting things that you might do instead of working toward the goal (like writing comments on HN! ;).

Delay is the amount of time you have until the task should be completed.

The more distractable you are, and the more time until you hit your deadline, the less motivation you have.

The more confidence you have in your ability to complete the task, and the more importance you assign to it (eg this is life or death), the more motivated you are.

Cedric Chin has a nice overview here:

https://commoncog.com/blog/a-user-review-of-the-procrastinat...

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#259

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

randomsearch wrote: post #215
avindroth wrote: post #158

The human mind is far more complex than a lot of these models or frameworks suggest. A model or a framework can mean any structured representation, but I am explicitly talking about the market of psychological frameworks. The ‘supply’ of that market consists of pretty bad models that do more harm than good (e.g. Mindset by Carol Dweck, CBT, Fogg Behavior Model, or anything based on behaviorism). I don’t recall fully,…

Why are growth mindsets bad? Challenging yourself seems pretty common sense no, the idea that you can get there.

The big problem with growth mindset isn't the mindset itself, it's the theoretical framework and the broader milieu surrounding it. It would be one thing if the concept were simply put forward as a way of framing and thinking about certain differences in how people learn in certain contexts. But there's apparently now a faction of education experts who have decided that growth mindset is Right and fixed mindset is Wrong, and so we're failing children if we don't "educate" them into having a growth mindset. Even if that means totally ignoring their lived experience and making them fill in a bunch of worksheets that are basically just "Goofus and Gallant" for beliefs instead of actions.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#260

Post by jwdunne »

vitabenes wrote: post #54
pmoriarty wrote: post #43

Some time back, I read all I could on procrastination, and watched dozens of videos on it, and by far the best thing I found on it was this video by Tim Pychyl: [1] It focuses particularly on procrastination in graduate school, but is widely applicable elsewhere. One of the key insights that Pychyl, a psychologist who studies procrastination, had is that procrastination is not (as is commonly believed) a time managem…

Yes, Pychil's work is incorporated in our materials. This is the recipe for procrastination (according to us): 1. Think about a task - "I have to do _____." 2. Have an automatic negative reaction 2a. Negative thoughts - "I hate doing this,"... 2b Negative feelings - Feeling stressed, afraid,... 3. Procrastinate - Do something else to feel better. Procrastination is all about escaping negative emotions. Something make…

This actually looks like the ground work for cognitive behavioural therapy.

The idea (grossly simplified) is to take those observations of negative thoughts and build a rational response to those thoughts (cognitive part). Then you build a habit of noticing those thoughts and responding with the rational response. It’s far easier said than done, and perhaps best dispensed by a therapist. But these mental tools have been crucial to improving my own mental health.

Some great books on that go into more depth than I ever could include Feeling Good by Burns or Byrne, Overcoming Anxiety and Overcoming Depression.

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