Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 266 posts

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#251

Post by dang »

dccoolgai wrote: post #24
nsoonhui wrote: post #14

Not really off tangent: I won't be surprised if this attracts lots of comments along the lines "US/ WESTERN COUNTRIES did this before too and therefore no better than China". I just can't understand why when it comes to geopolitics, HN just can't keep the discussion related to the submission? Somehow US/ western countries have to enter the discussion as a bad benchmark...

[flagged]

This breaks the site guidelines. Please don't post like this unless you have evidence. Other users disagreeing with you does not count as evidence.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24097185 for a recent explanation, and these links for plenty more:

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=a...

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#252

Post by dang »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #63
dccoolgai wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Wumao.

This breaks the site guidelines. Please don't post like this unless you have evidence. Other users disagreeing with you does not count as evidence.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24097185 for a recent explanation, and these links for plenty more:

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=a...

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#253

Post by dang »

fermienrico wrote: post #70
Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wumao.

Your comment is 28 mins old and there are so many anti-China comments in this thread that are downvoted into grayness. Something is definitely odd. This is an American forum, 7:27am on Saturday morning.

We've asked you before not to do this. It's against the site guidelines. We eventually ban accounts that keep breaking the site guidelines after we've repeatedly asked them to stop. Please stop.

I've looked at this data extensively. The truth, based on all the data I've looked at, is simply that users disagree. If you want to advocate for some other interpretation, but you need at least a scrap of actual evidence—something objective to go on. Otherwise this is just fantasy, and the site guidelines explicitly ask people to omit their sinister fantasies about other commenters being astroturfers, shills, spies and whatnot, because they poison discussion badly.

Users posting differing views does not count as evidence, and neither does imagination based on things like time zones.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=a...

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#254

Post by Ericson2314 »

unishark wrote: post #250
Ericson2314 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can make money on commodities and low quality products in a developing country with low costs. The factory owner can make a lot of money, but without advancing technology there is no way to raise the standard of living. The PRC's hold on power is absolutely predicated on raising the standard of living. > Why are you discounting very small countries exactly? At least in Singapore's case, being a strategically lo…

> Saying it's (always?) (usually?) the governments fault is capitalist propaganda. I gather from your post that you may not have much experience with startups or small business on your own, despite where we are. Because all the things you say are hard or impossible or just not done, are things you see daily. People with no IP working around that of others, which is the same problem for you as a foreign company. Peopl…

Actually, I work for a small tech company, and have to work around other people's undocumented interfaces all the time just like everyone else in this industry.

Your vision sorta works for software-based startups which are not capital intensive and dominated by labor costs. And I've seen first hand how telecommuting overcomes bad immigration law, allowing people in the west to cut the deals that cannot be done remotely on effectively behalf of foreign workers. Bad immigration law is indeed a government-induced problem, and this is one of the best workarounds we have.

Even then, the idea that no good local education is needed and that some body can just get a laptop, read some docs, and start making money is too optimistic.

But the larger problem is I don't think there is enough demand for YC-type stuff to significantly change the standard of living of a state. Consider how much money is dumped into SV startup before it makes money on average, and how few people SV employs due to the productivity of tech. This is not a good recipe for an entire nation.

The classic export goods are material goods; the far simpler unit economics ensure a steady stream of money back home, and the produced goods can (at least in principle) also be consumed domestically to make increasing in the standard of living not import-dependent. No country has gotten rich in the modern era without some of this, and I don't see this trend changing.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#255

Post by goatinaboat »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #174
naringas wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's far worse, USA needs their entire economy to stop relying on IP

My belief is the reason the US is suddenly freaking out about China is a) China is now creating their own IP. Because of course once you outsource manufacturing all the engineering and technical skill quickly follows. The next generation of products doesn't get designed in the US, it gets designed in China. b) China being flush with cash is now moving into international finance. You can imagine how well that's going…

once you outsource manufacturing all the engineering and technical skill quickly follows.

This is obvious to any trained Western engineer who knows that manufacturing is a sophisticated engineering discipline in its own right, and once you master it, the other branches of engineering naturally follow.

Western managers however, believed that the Chinese would be content to do just manufacturing forever, and were incapable of doing design. A classic example of how racism bites you in the arse. Having said that none of those managers will suffer, they've already cashed out.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#256

Post by dang »

murgindrag wrote: post #230
scruple wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We got cheap Chinese plastic trinkets. No, what we got was a new robber baron class of ultra-rich billionaires the likes of which haven't been seen since the federal government had to break up Standard Oil, etc... Which has led to extreme wealth inequality and a complete lack of access to _our fucking politics_ for the vast majority of Americans.

We can get more than one thing. I mean, sure, you didn't write anything wrong, but how is that an argument against "We got cheap Chinese plastic trinkets?" How is this even connected to the flow of the conversation? Do you respond this way to everyhing? I can just imagine your household. [Kids running in]: We got a pizza party at school! [Parent]: No, what we got was a new robber baron class of ultra-rich billionaire…

Please don't cross into personal attack on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#257

Post by dang »

scruple wrote: post #245
murgindrag wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> how is that an argument against "We got cheap Chinese plastic trinkets?" >It's not, you just read it that way. Your comment literally started by saying "No." In English, that means you disagree with what I wrote. It's followed by a comma, where in a standard English construction you would present your counterargument. > For some bizarre reason you seem really offended by what I wrote. I wasn't offended at all. I w…

Nah, it's very clear your hackles are raised. You're trying very hard to insult me and it's honestly hilarious. > Your comment literally started by saying "No." In English, that means you disagree with what I wrote. It's followed by a comma, where in a standard English construction you would present your counterargument. Do you respond this way to everything? I can just imagine your household. ...

Please don't respond to someone else breaking the site guidelines by breaking them yourself. That only makes the thread even worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#258

Post by scruple »

dang wrote: post #257
scruple wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, it's very clear your hackles are raised. You're trying very hard to insult me and it's honestly hilarious. > Your comment literally started by saying "No." In English, that means you disagree with what I wrote. It's followed by a comma, where in a standard English construction you would present your counterargument. Do you respond this way to everything? I can just imagine your household. ...

Please don't respond to someone else breaking the site guidelines by breaking them yourself. That only makes the thread even worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You're right. Sorry, dang.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#259

Post by haecceity »

murgindrag wrote: post #229
haecceity wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Didn't we do this to the indigenous people here once ourselves? Not until they invade and slaughter everyone here. And no that's probably not going to happen. Hilarious that people think this way though.

sigh This is among the dumbest arguments I've ever read on the Internet. I'm not sure if I'm not just being trolled, but it's like someone arguing Google didn't make Google Reader because they made Google Search. You can do more than one thing. For reference: http://newamsterdamhistorycenter.org/education/schaghen.html

Apologies. That's just what I thought of when the comparison with indigenous was brought up.

But that's not the only reason it's a bad comparison. When Manhattan was purchased there was no market. Chinese are buying things at market prices. Which I was taught are fair.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#260

Post by ReallyFantastic »

specialist wrote: post #107
corty wrote: post #3

The article gives several possible ways to improve the situation. However, one critical way is missing imho: China forces foreign investment to always come in the form of a joint venture with a Chinese company. This practice needs to be forbidden or heavily penalized in all future trade agreements and similar international contracts.

I just learned that Tesla in China does not have a local partner. Which surprised me. Was Tesla an exception? Are there others? Regardless, I'm absolutely certain that China is exfiltrating every morsel of IP. As state policy. It's what they do. The only interesting wrinkle to me is that Elon Musk is probably okay with the knowledge transfer. A man on a mission. Whatever it takes to get humanity carbon neutral asap.…

China ended its JV rule for the auto industry in April 2018: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/business/china-auto-elect...

Tesla was the first auto company to take advantage of this exception, some have argued that this exception was specifically carved out to incentivize them to build the Shanghai Gigafactory

Post reply on HN