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Brazil Bolsonaro: Facebook told to block accounts of president’s supporters

bbc.com

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Re: Brazil Bolsonaro: Facebook told to block accounts of president’s supporters

#251

Post by hu3 »

rumanator wrote: post #249
hu3 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, you're wrong. Facebook strives to comply on a national level only whenever possible. Here's an article about it: https://www.mic.com/articles/87515/if-you-live-in-one-of-the...

Somehow you missed the fact that Facebook complied with the ruling made by Brazil's court. https://time.com/5874695/facebook-blocks-accounts-worldwide/ Seems to me that, yet again, a service provider complies with court rulings requesting that illegal content should be taken down.

Please don't assume anyone on HN haven't read the linked article. It lowers the qualitty of discussions and is against guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Given I've quoted the article before on this thread, I can only assume you're acting in bad faith when insinuating I haven't read the article.

With that said, as the article states, Facebook temporarily complied only after the judge increased the sentence with a threat of imprisioning staff.

Facebook is paying lawyers out their own pockets to appeal as per article:

> "Given the threat of criminal liability to a local employee, at this point we see no other alternative than complying with the decision by blocking the accounts globally, while we appeal to the Supreme Court," it said.

Re: Brazil Bolsonaro: Facebook told to block accounts of president’s supporters

#252

Post by joshuamorton »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #247
ratww wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assign the copyright to the victim. Then they can make a copyright claim. Are you really saying that the way to deal with depictions of child-abuse is by assigning copyright to the victim and then asking the victim to deal with it judicially? This kind of process is onerous even for regular people in non-dire situations, let alone for children who have just been a victim of sexual abuse. By asking from action comin…

> This kind of process is onerous even for regular people in non-dire situations, let alone for children who have just been a victim of sexual abuse. By asking from action coming from the child, you are advocating something that is effectively forcing them to re-live the abuse. Nonsense. Copyright is designed as a profit-generating system. All they'd have to do is deploy a third party to enforce it. There are many or…

> All they'd have to do is deploy a third party to enforce it.

Ah perfect, ambulance chasers but for child porn.

This also ignores some major issues: child porn is currently illegal to create and distribute. There are good reasons for this. Once the porn gets old enough, it enters the public domain.

Which means that there's still a potential market for it, and there's no implicit criminality of the creation, but only the distribution of such things.

Re: Brazil Bolsonaro: Facebook told to block accounts of president’s supporters

#253

Post by deanCommie »

nradov wrote: post #232
deanCommie wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I...don't know how to respond to that. Truth is truth. Yes, there is right wing fascist parties that are trying to nullify the meaning of the word, and introduce subjectivity where there should not be any, sowing doubt on the very idea of Reality. But this is not the new normal for society or humanity. I refuse to believe that, or we're truly doomed. This is a temporary hurdle made by desperate people trying to hold…

The Earth orbits around the Sun. That is an indisputable truth right? Except it really isn't quite true and is only an approximation. In reality the Earth and Sun both orbit around their common center of gravity, and both orbits are perturbed by other celestial bodies in a complex n-body interaction. So what is "truth"? If I post on Facebook that the Earth orbits around the Sun should they censor my post for not bein…

You act as if Facebook is the first organization in the history of time to have this challenge.

Where is the dividing line?

Somewhere between "The Sun orbits around the Earth" and "The Earth orbits around the Sun". Where the first is clearly not the truth, and the second clearly is for 99.9% of contexts.

Re: Brazil Bolsonaro: Facebook told to block accounts of president’s supporters

#254

Post by ratww »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #247
ratww wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assign the copyright to the victim. Then they can make a copyright claim. Are you really saying that the way to deal with depictions of child-abuse is by assigning copyright to the victim and then asking the victim to deal with it judicially? This kind of process is onerous even for regular people in non-dire situations, let alone for children who have just been a victim of sexual abuse. By asking from action comin…

> This kind of process is onerous even for regular people in non-dire situations, let alone for children who have just been a victim of sexual abuse. By asking from action coming from the child, you are advocating something that is effectively forcing them to re-live the abuse. Nonsense. Copyright is designed as a profit-generating system. All they'd have to do is deploy a third party to enforce it. There are many or…

> And it has the extremely useful property of creating a market incentive to bankrupt pedophiles.

So, we treat child porn the same way we treat movie or music piracy, with the major difference being that victims doesn't have as much money as RIAA and MPAA to fight the pirates, and instead of good lawyers we get ambulance chasers, as pointed by the other poster?

You honestly believe that converting something that is currently a crime into a mere copyright violation will work better at removing the incentive for distributors of child pornography?

You're also delusional if you think distributors of child-porn operate in the daylight. Individual victims (or their proxies) don't have as much power/resources as the government to seek pedophiles just for noticing them for copyrights.

The only thing your suggestion would accomplish is making child-porn de facto legal.

> This is why fair use exists. Copyright doesn't always get that right, but now you're leveling a criticism of copyright implementation at a use case where it doesn't even apply. Pedophiles aren't distributing child pornography for the purposes of criticism.

Fair use makes your idea sound even more evil. Now an abuse victim risking losing a copyright case against a photographer using child-porn for criticism, or if someone uses it in a book for demonstration purposes.

On the other hand, your post is a tremendous idea for a dystopic novel. David Bowie made an album in 1995 about a detective deciding whether or not "Art-related Crime" is art, but you took it to an even darker corner.

Re: Brazil Bolsonaro: Facebook told to block accounts of president’s supporters

#255

Post by zackees »

antropofagico wrote: post #198

There seems to be some confusion in the comments regarding this decision. This is not an arbitrary decision made in a vacuum. There’s an ongoing judicial inquiry, and the accounts suspended were linked to persons of interest. They’re currently being investigated for crimes in both civil and penal spheres. The accounts were not banned, they are temporarily suspended for the course of the investigation. Also, it’s expl…

No, this is not legal. I talk with the leading YouTube influencers in the area. What’s happening is that the highly corrupt Brazilian supreme court has made “fake news” illegal and are arresting top influencers in the country.

The judges are violating constitutional law by going after these people.

Here’s a video on twitter I cut with one of the top influencers (by YouTube subs) explaining the situation.

https://twitter.com/perpetualmaniac/status/12897624790152273...

Re: Brazil Bolsonaro: Facebook told to block accounts of president’s supporters

#256

Post by nyolfen »

momokoko wrote: post #68
nyolfen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

microcommunities and web of trust. the things you mentioned are not eliminable but i trust my peers more than a multinational with conflicting values.

You are literally describing the breeding grounds of radicalizing young men on the internet. Microcommunities, if anything, have proven themselves incredibly dangerous to human life.

good thing centralized authority and official truthmaking organs have no such track record i suppose

Re: Brazil Bolsonaro: Facebook told to block accounts of president’s supporters

#257

Post by fuvkthisguy »

refurb wrote: post #75
fuvkthisguy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I think this just doesn't work out this way in reality. First of all, we know that deplatforming racists/fascists does actually help to stop the spread of racist/fascist ideas. Secondly, and I think this is the more salient point, encountering racist/sexist/transphobic/whatever speech as a person who is the target of such rhetoric is immediately harmful and othering, especially when these views aren't active…

First of all, we know that deplatforming racists/fascists does actually help to stop the spread of racist/fascist ideas. How do we know that? Has a study been done? Are there surveys that track it over time? Racists beliefs have decreased over the past 50 years. I haven't seen any evidence it's spiked since the advent of the internet. More visible? Sure. But more visible doesn't mean more people hold those beliefs.

By induction - repeated exposure to ideas increases their staying power in the mind - see advertising.

If one accepts the premise that fascist ideas spread by exposure, then one way to limit their spread is to limit said exposure.

Sidenote: I'm increasingly frustrated with this increase in veneration of scientific studies, as if studies are the only way or even the best way of attaining or approximating truth. I would like to see more acceptance of lived experience as admissible evidence in matters of debate.

Re: Brazil Bolsonaro: Facebook told to block accounts of president’s supporters

#258

Post by fuvkthisguy »

lopmotr wrote: post #93
fuvkthisguy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I think this just doesn't work out this way in reality. First of all, we know that deplatforming racists/fascists does actually help to stop the spread of racist/fascist ideas. Secondly, and I think this is the more salient point, encountering racist/sexist/transphobic/whatever speech as a person who is the target of such rhetoric is immediately harmful and othering, especially when these views aren't active…

Why do you talk so much about these abstract problems while neglecting the real ones? Black people get shot every day and it's not by the KKK or the police, it's by other black people. They are the real danger, not some parade with slogans. Other blacks is the major violence problem facing blacks in America today and has been for many decades but nobody seems to care. Blacks and Hispanics shooting members of their ow…

No, I'm pretty sure the cops are murdering black people.

Your analysis is sorely lacking in context for why black communities have higher rates of crime (hint: it's systemic racism, namely poverty and overpolicing).

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