ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard • Hacker News Board

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#251

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:55 AM UTC

wy35 wrote: post #68

Theodores wrote: post #28

I appreciate that there is a market for ergonomic fancy keyboards, but can't we just get the standard keyboard right? I wish that there was a keyboard company out there that focused on standard keyboards with attention paid to supporting all locales. Choice for the US consumer might be great but elsewhere in the English speaking world you start getting compromises. Essentially you can get a US keyboard with a few of…

> Why can't there just be a manufacturer that goes for the niche of standard ISO rather than ergonomic, or with too few keys, or with some emphasis on buckling spring style feel? Those features are what the mass consumer market wants. Also, I'm sure Logitech and Microsoft have always offered a standard ISO keyboard. > Ergonomic People value the long-term health of their wrists. > Too few keys Usually to reduce desk s…

[deleted]

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#252

Post by e3k » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 9:13 AM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #28

I appreciate that there is a market for ergonomic fancy keyboards, but can't we just get the standard keyboard right? I wish that there was a keyboard company out there that focused on standard keyboards with attention paid to supporting all locales. Choice for the US consumer might be great but elsewhere in the English speaking world you start getting compromises. Essentially you can get a US keyboard with a few of…

Take a look at Durgod Taurus K320 TKL ISO UK version - classic look, Cherry MX brown switches.

For the real classic look, I just had to replace the 2 oddly colored keycaps (provided in the box).

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#253

Post by k_sze » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 10:22 AM UTC

Anybody else thought this is about a spacecraft when they saw the first two words of the title? For a moment I thought ZSA referred to some little-known space agency. Maybe Zambia or Zimbabwe Space Agency.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#254

Post by Theodores » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 11:20 AM UTC

e3k wrote: post #252

Theodores wrote: post #28

I appreciate that there is a market for ergonomic fancy keyboards, but can't we just get the standard keyboard right? I wish that there was a keyboard company out there that focused on standard keyboards with attention paid to supporting all locales. Choice for the US consumer might be great but elsewhere in the English speaking world you start getting compromises. Essentially you can get a US keyboard with a few of…

Take a look at Durgod Taurus K320 TKL ISO UK version - classic look, Cherry MX brown switches. For the real classic look, I just had to replace the 2 oddly colored keycaps (provided in the box).

That is a gorgeous keyboard. Perfect in every way except for the dealbreaker...

The dealbreaker for me is the connectivity. A keyboard should be able to connect over a wire (and/or a wireless dongle), Bluetooth 3, Bluetooth 5 and telepathy.

A £10 mouse can connect with a dongle that is stored inside the mouse, or via BT 3/5. There are chips for this.

I might have to send an email in block caps to Durgod with my demands, since their products are so nice, down to the keycaps labels.

Thanks for the tip.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#255

Post by majkinetor » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 11:59 AM UTC

Too wrote: post #248

nextos wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love mechanical keyboards. My favorite switch is ALPS. But IMHO, the most ergonomic switches are low-travel ones. They increase my typing speed, reduce latency and make long sessions effortless. Luckily, low-travel versions of many good quality keyboard switches are being produced and developed more often now to cater the gaming market. For a simple, readily available option, I find the Apple Magic Keyboard more th…

For a low-travel and ergonomic keyboard, check out the Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic. It's wireless and has a standard layout which doesn't require any learning, including a real row of function-keys, full size arrow-block and pg-up/down. And it just cost 1/4 of the Moonlander. No per-key dedicated backlight, no programmable ARM Cortex or any other thrills, it's just a simple, comfortable, plug in and start using keyboa…

This is awesome keyboard.

Fn keys do suck tho and are cheap. Also, forearm gets dirty in few days and keyboard start to look like it is used for years.

I also gave silly mouse a chance and it turns out I like it very much now - not for games but otherwise very good and fits in hand great.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#256

Post by tom_ » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:15 PM UTC

Fellshard wrote: post #197

codemac wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who uses an advantage kinesis & dvorak, laptops & dvorak, and other people's computers & qwerty: You get used to switching back and forth in ~2 weeks. If you spend all your day typing, definitely spend the $ and the time to learn to type on an ergonomic keyboard with good quality switches. I think the kinesis or maltron have the best research on their ergonomics & build quality. I highly recommend them.

Exactly this. If you have distinct work and personal computers and setups, use different keyboards and layouts for each. The learning curve takes a couple months for good proficiency, but the ability to manually switch modes at a moment's notice is an enormous boon that saves you from having to reconfigure everyone else's keyboards just to type, or making continual mistakes when doing so.

Yes, I can switch between layouts, and I don't mind doing it when it's for short periods on other people's PCs. I just draw the line at having to do it for the PCs I use regularly. I use this thing for 6-8 hours a day. Comfort and familiarity is what I want, and I want it now, with no retraining required. I may be stuck in local minimum, but I'll take that risk.

So I am just wondering why it's so hard to find a nice split keyboard with a standard layout. (And symmetrical meta keys.) It's not like this layout is unusual. That's what I find so odd about this!

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#257

Post by eyeball » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:23 PM UTC

mondalaci wrote: post #211

eyeball wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found my UHK’s (three of them) to be great but prone to a few problems: 1) the rubber legs tend to fall out and go missing 2) they’re very susceptible to static electricity shocks on the exposed metal parts 3) the usb cable connector is fragile and I’d you move much, it can get damaged inside the keyboard requiring you open it up to fix. I wish they had used usb-c and put it in a better/easier location.

Hi there, thanks for your huge support, and sorry to hear about the issues! Issue 1 has been fixed quite a while ago. We provide spare rubber feet if you need some. I'm unsure if we faced with issue 2 because your description doesn't contain many details about this one. As for issue 3, this is quite a rare one, and we'll provide a new UHK version featuring USB-C and tons of improvements. PS: I'm the founder of the UH…

re: #2 ...

I live in a dry area, in the winter sometimes when I sit down to type a static shock will go off if I brush the edges of the case where there is exposed metal. When this happens it will often lead to the keyboard disconnecting from usb. Or staying connected (power on) but not responding to input. So far unplugging and replugging has always fixed it, but it's an annoying feature.

Re: #3 ...

Glad to hear that you're making design changes to fix this. It has happened on two of my boards now where the usb connection has become loose. I contacted support on it a few months ago and they suggested I try to open up the case and fix it. I haven't been able to do that yet but will give it a try.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#258

Post by Symbiote » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:43 PM UTC

cuddlybacon wrote: post #235

MivLives wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's defiantly layouts that have been made with the thumb buttons moved in. The Iris[1] or Corne[2] for example. Though you're now in custom keyboard territory which means you're either building it yourself, or finding a person/company to assemble it for you. [1] https://alexjj.com/images/iris-example.jpg [2] https://alexjj.com/images/iris-example.jpg

Mhm. Mhm. I ended up looking at the options in https://github.com/pvinis/awesome-split-keyboards based on your comment. I noticed all the ones that moved the thumb cluster in, also don't have the bottom row that the ergodox does.

The ErgoDash[1] has 7 keys along the bottom, of which either 3 or 4 are thumb keys (the 4th key can be soldered in two positions).

At least the way I set up my ErgoDash, either side can be primary. I think this is now standard.

> I find it hard to come up with uses for the fancier things the keyboard firmware can do (eg dual purpose modifier keys, space cadet shift, macros etc).

- I have[2] a simultaneous press of T and 5 set to be F5. Similarly for the whole top row.

- A short tap of my media key is "Media Next". A solid press is "Media Play/Pause". A long press is "Ctrl + Media Stop", which my media player recognizes as "Stop after current track". Something similar for the volume key.

- Enter is a thumb key, but when held down it's Ctrl.

- I have a window switching key, which holds down Alt and presses Tab, but keeps Alt held down for 0.5s in case of subsequent presses.

- I have single keys for Ctrl+PgUp and Ctrl+PgDown, which switches tabs in many applications.

[1] https://github.com/omkbd/ErgoDash

[2] http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/501437fce9123e...

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#259

Post by tokamak-teapot » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:47 PM UTC

evan_ wrote: post #145

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #141

My wrists ache badly if I type too much, despite all the adjustments I’ve made over the years. I’m currently using an Apple wired keyboard angled so the front edge is higher, with my hands floating above it or sitting on silicon rests. I also use Filco tenkeyless mechanical keyboards - one with blue and one with brown switches. I prefer the feel of these and make fewer mistakes, but I’m convinced they make my wrists…

if you want to demo a split keyboard you could plug two keyboards in and put one hand on each

That’s an amazing idea!

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#260

Post by tokamak-teapot » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:48 PM UTC

nico_h wrote: post #156

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #141

My wrists ache badly if I type too much, despite all the adjustments I’ve made over the years. I’m currently using an Apple wired keyboard angled so the front edge is higher, with my hands floating above it or sitting on silicon rests. I also use Filco tenkeyless mechanical keyboards - one with blue and one with brown switches. I prefer the feel of these and make fewer mistakes, but I’m convinced they make my wrists…

Depending on the number of rows and columns you want there is quite a cottage industry of ergo keyboards. I think the main ergo flat keyboard (staggered columns) with 3 rows 6 columns are the Gergo / Kyria / Corne depending on the number and placement of thumb keys (they can be found assembled to order). For 3d / sculpted keyboards, this person is selling assembled to order Dactyl manuforms: https://dactyl.bigcartel.…

Brilliant thanks! That top link looks like it might be exactly what I was hoping to be able to buy