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The global fertility rate is falling

bbc.com

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Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#251

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

inopinatus wrote: post #222
Guy2020 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how people dismiss things so readily by labeling them "conspiracy theory." I just can't imagine looking at a world with such great wealth inequality and coming to the conclusion that this is an equal playing field where everyone exerts the same influence on the evolution of humanity.

Mary Wollstonecraft was not rich, and (ironically given this discussion) died due to the complications of giving birth to Mary Shelley. The claim that the wealthy are controlling everyone's fertility is as short-sighted as it is parochial. Given that elsewhere in this thread you explain how this is all the work of a shadow government , the label hardly seems unwarranted.

They're controlling the economy in ways that influence reproductive choices.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#253

Post by lotsofpulp »

rayiner wrote: post #201
snowwrestler wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO a greater magic trick is convincing folks like you that these rich people are actually powerful enough to control fundamental behaviors like sex and reproduction. It's a profoundly dis-empowering and anti-democratic message, which is of course why a lot of those rich people are happy for you to believe it. The reality is this: in every instance we know of, making education and birth control available to women (no…

Parenting is hard and expensive, especially these days in the developed world where people have children late and most people don’t live near extended family. My parents moving near me totally changed my wife and my outlook on having a third (from “no way, too sleepy” to “hey remember when the little one was just a baby?”)

Money is just one form of wealth. Having a network of trusted, productive people, such as healthy grandparents who can assist with raising children is another.

I can see in my extended family and friends the monetary and general success of those with supportive families (especially those families with multiple brothers) that worked together versus those families that were split apart and did not have someone to rely on. They are in completely different socioeconomic classes now.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#254

Post by daseiner1 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #119
grugagag wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2 year old. It was an accident as both I and my wife didn’t want children or weren’t ready. I’ve got to say that it has become the best part of my life and yes it is not easy when you’re looking in from the outside but becoming a parent changes you, you become more resilient, objevtives in life change, etc So, no, children are not a burden unless you make it to be.

It’s wonderful that it’s worked out for you, but I can show you to Facebook support groups of thousands of parents that abhor and regret having children. Children by their very nature are a burden because they can’t care for themselves. Are we arguing with the very data from this article? Clearly children are not that in demand if the fertility rate is experiencing a “jaw dropping global crash”.

children have been a cornerstone of human life from the start, but you think the outliers on facebook are the norm?

everything the commenter described are not things one would “demand” before having children, but would only experience after having them. honestly, referring to having children as something that would be “in demand” is disgusting to me

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#255

Post by arp242 »

kijin wrote: post #87
dutch3000 wrote: post #12

another chicken little article. worthless speculation about the future. who knows what will happen if the population declines. one thing is for certain though. it will be a positive for the environment. at some point the ponzi scheme, infinite growth society must have it’s day of reckoning

> who knows what will happen if the population declines. Hopefully, a declining population will lead to an oversupply of housing. Existing homeowners will do their damnedest to prop up prices by any means possible, but it can't last forever. Housing prices will crash sooner or later. It will probably happen in each country long before a its population has halved. Cost of housing is currently a huge factor in declinin…

In many areas the shortage of housing isn't really one of space, lack of housing, or population, but rather that everyone wants a house in the same urban areas, mostly due to the availability of jobs.

If you want a house in Ireland for example, then the country-side is dirt cheap, but if you want one in Dublin or Cork then be prepared to pay through the nose. The situation seems similar in most countries.

I'm not sure what a solution for this will be, but I'm not sure if population decline will be a major contributor.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#256

Post by tomerico »

Guy2020 wrote: post #218
mr_woozy wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be a godwins law for people who attempt to use this method of ending a discussion. "go read this book which explains my point because I can't explain it well enough to others." is not a convincing argument in the least.

What good are books if we can't direct people at them? That book makes my case. The fact that Bernays was a major advisor for the media complex of America makes the book an even more significant piece of evidence for my position.

The idea is not that books are not useful, but that you should make effort to summarize the main point of the book while still recommending the book.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#257

Post by ggm »

I would love to see this re-spun as a net-positive article, discussing how we can 'grow the economy' by providing goods and services worldwide instead of asymmetrically to only a small cohort of the population.

'Do it better with less people' is what sustainable is all about.

Birth rate decline in many economies correlates strongly to rises in standards of living: kids are a hedge against economic bad times in poor, rural economies.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#258

Post by qppo »

kalleboo wrote: post #125
qppo wrote: post #50

I feel like bemoaning sub-replacement rate fertility doesn't take into account the exponential growth of automation in post-industrialized economies and how little labor actually needs to be done to maintain the same productivity, let alone how less labor increases productivity in an organization (no numbers there - just an observation from my own work). Extrapolated to society I'm not really afraid of an aging popul…

I worry because society has not given us the benefits of increased productivity. We've already massively increased productivity with computerization, but during that same period instead of more leisure time, society has actually demanded MORE working hours (by putting more women to work)

It's kind of hard to make a sweeping statement like that.

We're seeing costs and benefits of increased productivity/efficiency. My diet consists of fruits and vegetables that my parents could only buy a few times a year when I was a kid. My grandmother made dresses from potato and flour sacks during the war, and my great grandmother sold jams from homegrown fruits because sugar was rationed. I'm typing this comment on a machine manufactured and assembled halfway around the world, designed 30 miles from where I'm sitting, and last week took a medical test that was developed, tested, manufactured and shipped across the country in weeks.

To say that we don't benefit from increased productivity is not true - those anecdotes are all examples of how rapid industrialization across the globe and improved communications, design, manufacturing, operations, and strategy have quantifiably improved my life as a human.

I also wouldn't say that the boon in productivity demanded more labor. Particularly because the entry of women into the workforce was driven by the Great Inflation (which didn't improve productivity) and the tail end of second wave feminism which had succeeded in changing our society's attitude towards women in the workforce. The decomposition of that barrier in our society begot such productivity in our economy, it didn't respond to the demand for more.

But I agree, we're not getting all the benefits of such productivity. At least not all of us. But that's why UBI is probably the future, because eventually all our jobs are going to be automated.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#259

Post by jb775 »

I think people are putting too much emphasis on the financial costs, you figure it out as you go.

I have a 1.5 year old and it's hard to explain the simple joys I get from just running around the house with him goofing off. It's nice to forget about the real world for a while and build a pillow fort. He's also brought much joy to other family members (grandparents, cousins), and my extended family is closer as a result.

Re: The global fertility rate is falling

#260

Post by cko »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #240
bing_dai wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Society can only support you in old age if there are enough younger people around." I do not agree with that. In my opinion, technology advancements (say, driverless cars) will make reduce the amount of young people needed to support for older people.

I have yet to see any technology that will change a bedpan in the next 30 years. Much less provide the most important component to an older person’s mental (and hence in some ways physical) health - which is the company of other humans, family and friends, and typically grand children and other decendants.

I have been thinking of some powered exoskeleton that provides mobility as one solution.

What is more concerning is loneliness, but maybe VR NPCs or something.

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