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IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

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Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#251

Post by swiftcoder »

jarym wrote: post #197
vmception wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its shocking how many people here totally misunderstand the role and daily job of inhouse recruiters they churn out these job requirements daily the person you speak with on the phone wasn't involved with writing it, just correct them and get to the first technical person as soon as possible. this is done at companies of all sizes, whether it is IBM, Google, Uber, Pinterest, as well as expected in non-tech companies.…

I am fairly certain it wasn't the recruiter who put in the experience requirement. My dis-interest wasn't due to the recruiter but to do with whichever manager thought they needed needed more experience than the age of a product - either they are careless or don't care about a persons skillset. Could I have been wrong? Of course. All I said was I was dis-interested, I had better opportunities with people who I unders…

> I am fairly certain it wasn't the recruiter who put in the experience requirement.

I've seen multiple job postings for my teams where somewhere in the HR->recruiting pipeline the (correct) job requirements were replaced with "standard" requirements.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#252

Post by f1refly »

af65t34f75693 wrote: post #95
juped wrote: post #22

> I saw a job post the other day. > It required 4+ years of experience in FastAPI. > I couldn't apply as I only have 1.5+ years of experience since I created that thing. https://twitter.com/tiangolo/status/1281946592459853830

The only thing I don't like about it is how every line in this tweet ends in a 'fitting' emoji I'm not even that old (born in the 80s), but is that the style adults use now?

I'm born in the 90s and reading that tweet made me want to puke

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#253

Post by grawprog »

koheripbal wrote: post #171
jarym wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened to me - got a call from a recruiter who said client needed 10 years. I replied 'I was a teenager back then' to which she said 'so you don't have enough experience?'. I responded 'Well I helped create the thing, it hasn't been around 10 years'. Silence followed, I was thoroughly dis-interested after that.

> I was thoroughly dis-interested after that. Why? The experience and intelligence of the recruiter has almost zero correlation to the experience and intelligence of the people you'd be working with. Recruiting people / HR are just an administrative barrier to get through. Once you speak to the actual team you'd be working with, you can start being more discerning of the quality of the people.

Having never worked in a large enough company to have an hr department, this confuses me.

My assumption is, a team needs personel and so the team manager makes a request to hr with a list of requirements for said recruit. Or at least that's how it seems like it should be.

Along the way, should not someone who put together that list of requirements have some idea of what they were asking for?

I've only worked at small enough business we had one general manager in charge of hiring. If one of the sections of our work needed employees, job postings would be created with those specific positions in mind, with the specific requirements of that position figured out by usually the most experienced person in that position and passed along to the manager.

Again, this may just be my ignorance, but, if it wasn't the hr person that wrote the requirements, wouldn't it have been someone that should have known better?

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#254

Post by pm90 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #178
koheripbal wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was thoroughly dis-interested after that. Why? The experience and intelligence of the recruiter has almost zero correlation to the experience and intelligence of the people you'd be working with. Recruiting people / HR are just an administrative barrier to get through. Once you speak to the actual team you'd be working with, you can start being more discerning of the quality of the people.

> Why? The experience and intelligence of the recruiter has almost zero correlation to the experience and intelligence of the people you'd be working with. Good recruiters are able to match a candidate's skills with the skills required for the role they're recruiting for. If they can't do that, they are bad at their job and are more often than not wasting the time you could be spending with a recruiter who knows the…

Recruiters have different levels of experience: same as software engineers. Some are just starting their career, some have more experience. Most recruiters didn't go to school for recruiting; they usually landed the job based mostly on their inter personal skills. Most lack any context around technology. In that light, making a judgement call about a team based solely on the recruited seems suboptimal. If they make mistakes, most would be happy if you point it out to them.

Everyone is trying to help each other; don't let go of potentially great opportunities due to these misconceptions.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#255

Post by vkou »

heavyset_go wrote: post #178
koheripbal wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was thoroughly dis-interested after that. Why? The experience and intelligence of the recruiter has almost zero correlation to the experience and intelligence of the people you'd be working with. Recruiting people / HR are just an administrative barrier to get through. Once you speak to the actual team you'd be working with, you can start being more discerning of the quality of the people.

> Why? The experience and intelligence of the recruiter has almost zero correlation to the experience and intelligence of the people you'd be working with. Good recruiters are able to match a candidate's skills with the skills required for the role they're recruiting for. If they can't do that, they are bad at their job and are more often than not wasting the time you could be spending with a recruiter who knows the…

> Are you willing to waste time and money going through the interview process just to find out that the role isn't a good fit, even though the recruiter said it was?

You should pretend the recruiter - any recruiter is a compulsive liar, and put exactly zero value on whether or not they claim the role is a good fit. They are never going to interact with you again, they may not understand you or the role, and they are financially incentivised to bullshit to you.

Ignore what they say, and judge whether or not the role is a good fit for yourself. I wouldn't hold a good recruiter as a positive sign for a job, nor would I hold a shitty recruiter as a red flag.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#256

Post by mjevans »

P-ala-din wrote: post #212
mcherm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that she was actually a nice person who simply didn't know when .NET was invented. But I do not accept that she made a harmless and easily fixed error on the job requirements because of this. Frankly, I'm not that concerned that the job requirements demanded more years of .NET experience then it was possible to have. I am more concerned about all the other requirements that were listed on that job description w…

just supporting your point: Why Women Don’t Apply for Jobs Unless They’re 100% Qualified [1] [1] - https://hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-dont-apply-for-jobs-unless...

Or they could clearly put out actual REQUIREMENTS and then a list of 'nice to have's.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#258

Post by TrackerFF »

VLM wrote: post #188

A lot of very young people on HN. From my jaded older perspective this is VERY common when they want no external applicants. So we can't call it a corporate reorganization for Dilbertian process reasons and we're only transferring one person anyway, so we'll abuse the hire/fire/transfer process and put in hilarious requirements like a decade of experience with javascript react framework or this K8S ad. Or the bosses…

How to spot "This posting was tailored for/against one particular applicant" listings

- Arbitrary number years of experience required.

- Absolute requirements on very specific tools and environments.

- Minimum Masters degree, even though the work isn't anywhere near that.

- Strong preference for applicants that are well known with the industry.

- Very short deadline.

If it's also a gov. job, then that almost definitely seals the deal that it's for someone internal.

Sadly, with a lot of gov. jobs, there's so much bureaucracy and laws/regulations to navigate around, that it's often impossible to "just" promote someone internal to a new position / title. The job needs to get posted around, and often times there are external boards that will have the final say.

This is obviously to fight and a CYA process against nepotism etc., but also makes it a real pain to get people.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#259

Post by derefr »

koheripbal wrote: post #218
webmaven wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is valid to have a preference for employers that care enough about recruiting to employ good recruiters.

If you have infinite choices and time, sure. ...but if you're looking for the best jobs/pay/environment/company, then those are the only things you should be selecting on.

Bad recruiting produces badly-filtered coworkers, which translates to a bad environment.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#260

Post by derefr »

TwoNineFive wrote: post #235
jarym wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened to me - got a call from a recruiter who said client needed 10 years. I replied 'I was a teenager back then' to which she said 'so you don't have enough experience?'. I responded 'Well I helped create the thing, it hasn't been around 10 years'. Silence followed, I was thoroughly dis-interested after that.

Lie to them. They want you to lie to them. They are DEMANDING that you lie to them. They will PUNISH you if you don't lie to them. So lie. It's what they want. And if you don't, someone else will.

People say this about spammers (“there’s always some other sucker”) but scam-baiting still seems to work to diminish the number of scams/spam in the world.

Perhaps we need recruiter-baiters: people who will, as a hobby, intentionally get recruiters to pass them on to companies, at which point they will (under an assumed identity) say or do something so egregious that it will poison the recruiter’s relationship with the company.

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