Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 288 posts

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#251

Post by zosima »

komali2 wrote: post #201
zosima wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anybody except you conflate natural and ethical. So the cubans now live side by side with mexicans? And both they and mexicans/south americans self-identify as hispanics/latinx and not cubans, mexicans or something else? And having a Cuban American cultural exchange is just an oddity of history? And is now more the latinx american cultural exchange?

The thread is being lost - what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

That self-selection for living and organizing with kindred is something that also happens in the absence of extreme power disparity.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#252

Post by SftwreEngnr »

dang wrote: post #245
forgot_user1234 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer - english is not my first language Hey dang, I am curious. what could I have done better? if OP said he is suffering "solely" because of his colour and I think, its borderline impossible to pin point a result of large complex system on any one thing? P.S. - do people flag my comments or did you just see it on your own.

People in the GP's situation often encounter responses like "it's easy to pin point a problem on others" or other logical-sounding objections that come across as dismissive of the specific experiences that they're reporting. If you do that in the way you did it, complete with a Twitter link about how to become a 'high-agency' person, other people will interpret you as saying 'that's not happening' and 'you should jus…

dang: you are insufferable--and don't misconstrue what I mean by that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#253

Post by kqvamxurcagg »

I have to say I find the featured developer Ibrahim racist. He appears to view everything through race and has a special affinity towards other people who share his race. He also projects that black people are hired accidentally rather than hired on merit. I find his perspective deeply disturbing.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#254

Post by Mirioron »

atdt wrote: post #55

This isn't going to be a popular sentiment here, but I think Ibrahim's experiences shows why diversity training is important. It's 2020; there is no reason for things like this happen: > I've been to job interviews where the receptionist will take me to a whiteboard room. When the interviewer comes in, he'd say: "I'm sorry, you must be in the wrong room." > I often get: "I couldn't tell where you are from on the phon…

>I often hear complaints that diversity training is largely cosmetic and doesn't get at the root of the problem.

Does it work? I can certainly see a scenario whereby mandating diversity training could just make the situation worse instead. Obviously I understand how it might improve things too. So, does it work?

>But as this op-ed shows, seemingly small foot-in-mouth "gaffs" can be surprisingly hurtful, and they are largely correctible with training.

I don't see how you will ever get rid of them. Sure, maybe for one identifiable group, but then it'll be something else. There are a million things by which these kinds of foot in mouth situations can arise that are hurtful. You can't have training for all of that, which means that some people will have to get over it in other ways. Or are those okay because they're not about race?

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#255

Post by mcv »

scarface74 wrote: post #127

Again, for context, I’m Black and I’ve been in the industry for 25 years. I have never experienced what the author experienced. Maybe it’s because I’ve worked in Atlanta all of my career where companies are use to seeing Black professionals? It could be that I’ve spent all of my career in the staid enterprise development space instead of Big Tech? Whatever it is, I can’t ignore statistics because of the anecdotal exp…

I can certainly imagine that this sort of thing can vary wildly by region, by city, and certainly by country.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#256

Post by numpad0 »

numpad0 wrote: post #79
komali2 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try asking some POC friends or colleagues! Get their perspective. Another user mentioned that it feels like kneeling on the ground and using "baby talk." That's not what's being said here. It's simply taking a moment to observe yourself and other colleagues potentially engaging in unconscious (or even conscious - you may have an avowed racist hiding it very well on the team!) bias. This is being an ally. It's not pat…

> POC It’s not like “white” people aren’t colored

This came up to my feed elsewhere so I’ll leave it here. I don’t care if particular skin colors are similar or dis-similar from one another, but I naturally don’t value actively agreeing with supremacists.

> East Asians were almost always called white, particularly during the period of first modern contact in the 16th century. And on a number of occasions, even more revealingly, the people were termed “as white as we are”.

(...)

> But by the 17th century, the Chinese and Japanese were “darkening” in published texts, gradually losing their erstwhile whiteness when it became clear they would remain unwilling to participate in European systems of trade, religion, and international relations.

> Calling them white, in other words, was not based on simple perception either and had less to do with pigmentation than their presumed levels of civilisation, culture, literacy, and obedience (particularly if they should become Christianised).

[0]: https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/2184754/chine...

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#257

Post by mcv »

octaveguin wrote: post #33
joshribakoff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I try really hard to ignore color One thing I was taught in anti-bias trainings at big tech companies was that trying to "ignore" color helps perpetuate biases. It is important that if an under represented co-worker speaks up, you pay extra attention, explicitly ensure their idea is credited to them, be vocal when you agree even if you otherwise would not, help others to understand their contributions, etc. Biases…

Isn't that horribly patronizing? I'd feel offended if someone treated me with kid gloves based on my skin color.

Seems like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If the options are getting ignored, including for promotions; or getting extra attention because you're from an underrepresented group, I think option B is better in the long run, because at least it helps to address the underrepresentation.

Once representation is more equal, I think the "ignore colour" option becomes more feasible. But we're not there yet.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#258

Post by mcv »

bJGVygG7MQVF8c wrote: post #207
komali2 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allyship for POC doesn't imply bias against white people. Acknowledging and fighting against systemic racism doesn't imply that all white people should feel universal guilt for their very real privilege. Raising others up doesn't require pushing anyone down. Well, anyone that isn't in a white hood, anyway.

> Allyship for POC doesn't imply bias against white people. Sure, in theory. In practice, bias against whites exists, some of it catalyzed by woke ideology. (By woke logic) White-presenting people are really the only ones with standing to speak to such bias in their own lives. > Well, anyone that isn't in a white hood, anyway. Ah yes, the IRL downvote: call someone a racist / Nazi / fascist / Klansman.

> "Ah yes, the IRL downvote: call someone a racist / Nazi / fascist / Klansman."

But it does need to be called out when it happens. Otherwise we allow it to continue. Protecting the status quo is not neutral or unbiased when the status quo is marginalising certain groups. And no, white people are really not remotely marginalised in any meaningful way in western countries.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#259

Post by jamisteven »

o-__-o wrote: post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

Many of the things you mention to have experienced, I too have experienced. Only I am white, working in a largely caucasian environment.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#260

Post by mcv »

tobyhinloopen wrote: post #15

Now that I think about it: I’ve met more female programmers than black ones. And I might have met maybe 2 female programmers, and 0 black programmers. Weird. Now imagine being a 50 year old black female programmer and getting hired. Anyway I’d welcome colleagues of any color and gender.

The vast majority of female programmers I've met were Indian. White female programmers are surprisingly rare in Netherland.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this observation. Is Netherland more sexist than India? It's hard to deny based on this observation, but Dutch society is usually pretty egalitarian. A lot of women work. Just not in software. But it's not that women in general aren't interested in it, because Indian women clearly are.

Post reply on HN