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Looking back at how Signal works

signal.org

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Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#251

Post by Vinnl »

gdmka wrote: post #224

I love Signal. I've convinced a multitude of people to switch and some use it day to day currently, but mostly to talk to me. So i feel my contacts do it out of respect and `compatibility` of communication. What baffles me is the the incompatible feature matrix. First of all, for some reason iOS users get the updates faster than the Android. I was exploring emoji reactions yesterday while my Android contact admitted…

> I was exploring emoji reactions yesterday while my Android contact admitted the feature was not yet available for his device.

That's weird? Do you mean this feature: https://signal.org/blog/reactions/?

I'm on Android, and it's been available to me for ages...

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#252

Post by Vinnl »

fish45 wrote: post #131
StavrosK wrote: post #45

I love Signal and use it as much as I can, but I'm thinking of switching to Matrix solely because the desktop client is pretty bad. It won't show me messages until it syncs everything (so I can't even see old messages while things sync), and, what's worse, it skips messages, and multi-device just doesn't work. My laptop just shows "Message could not be decrypted" until I delete everything and reset. I'm not sure why…

The desktop was pretty terrible for me (on Linux) for until a few months ago, but now it works perfectly. The only thing missing is sms from the desktop but from what I understand Signal won't ever add that because sms isn't secure

Given that you're able to use the Desktop app without your phone even being on, I'm not sure how they'd even be able to do that.

I can use e.g. KDE Connect when my phone is on to send SMS messages from my desktop, but then they won't appear in Signal, unfortunately.

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#253

Post by merge »

MYEUHD wrote: post #67
jjtheblunt wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What alternative would you recommend?

XMPP with OMEMO

agreed. I recently removed Signal and started using xmpp (again). It'll always be there (Signal probably won't) and getting a friend to install conversations.im and register a name on a public server is not much harder than getting someone to install Signal. To me it somehow feels like it's a good time for xmpp

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#254

Post by spians »

bsaul wrote: post #232
gdmka wrote: post #224

I love Signal. I've convinced a multitude of people to switch and some use it day to day currently, but mostly to talk to me. So i feel my contacts do it out of respect and `compatibility` of communication. What baffles me is the the incompatible feature matrix. First of all, for some reason iOS users get the updates faster than the Android. I was exploring emoji reactions yesterday while my Android contact admitted…

Never tried Signal, but from what you're telling, it seems that they redevelop the core functionalities for each platform. That's interesting, because i've been looking for a way to share core logic code across platform (mobile & desktop at least), and still haven't found something really user friendly. From my brief lookup (rust & gomobile are the ones i've looked at), it seems that most dev environment seem to supp…

Honestly there are no perfect solutions to this. There are cross platform frameworks (React Native, Xamarin etc) that you can try but you'll definitely hit the wall when trying to access low level native APIs. Kotlin Multiplatform seems to be the step in the right direction. It has first party support on Android and works seamlessly for Android apps, but it's too early to tell for the other platforms. In an ideal scenario, you can share the core business logic using Kotlin Multiplatform and then implement UI and platform specific stuff using native APIs (or something like Flutter (again, not production ready)).

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#255

Post by secfirstmd »

upofadown wrote: post #244
secfirstmd wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a massive Matrix fan and have high hopes for it but in experiments we've done with activist and journalist partners we've found the Riot.im client often gets a bit complicated for people to use. I think the main issue people have is related to keys. As I techie I love the options but I find many don't like having all the options. Signal of course is a lot easier as it hides many of those issues in the UI/UX.

The root problem is the requirement to verify that you are talking to who you think you are talking to. If you skip the identity verification stuff then you are inherently trusting a 3rd party. So if you are not exchanging your key fingerprints (safety numbers in Signal terms) then you are kidding yourself.

Exactly. That's the root problem and it's a problem that won't easily go away UI/UX and useability vs Security. To be honest right now most people have voted with their useability thumbs.

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#256

Post by gdmka »

Y-bar wrote: post #234
gdmka wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually iOS can transfer message history to a new iPhone https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Ba... Not having a backup is seen as a disadvantage by many but i literally feel it's for the best. There's plenty of scenarios when parties benefit from it.

Purchasing a new phone is only a small subset of the scenarios where a backup is useful, for example, in the last two years Apple support has requested that I reset my phone and reinstall iOS twice. Having to buy a second phone to temporarily store my data is not a viable alternative. Or losing your phone. Or accidentally breaking it. Or having it stolen. A backup protects my data in these situations where a transfer…

There were mentions of multi-device coming later on Twitter. While it's not the desired backup feature but a mean to duplicate data at least and backup with Android.

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#257

Post by gdmka »

Vinnl wrote: post #251
gdmka wrote: post #224

I love Signal. I've convinced a multitude of people to switch and some use it day to day currently, but mostly to talk to me. So i feel my contacts do it out of respect and `compatibility` of communication. What baffles me is the the incompatible feature matrix. First of all, for some reason iOS users get the updates faster than the Android. I was exploring emoji reactions yesterday while my Android contact admitted…

> I was exploring emoji reactions yesterday while my Android contact admitted the feature was not yet available for his device. That's weird? Do you mean this feature: https://signal.org/blog/reactions/ ? I'm on Android, and it's been available to me for ages...

The extended emoji reactions were rolled out couple of days ago.

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#258

Post by emptysongglass »

Arathorn wrote: post #243
emptysongglass wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for reflecting with an opinion. I also believe that opt-in E2EE is worse than having it by default. We have precedent for E2EE chats by default and syncing those E2EE messages across devices using the latest RiotX for Matrix. I'd love to see Telegram adopt that strategy. I use Telegram because it delights its users. When I have tried to bring friends and family to first Riot, then Signal, the experience I e…

On the Matrix side we’re removing the recovery passphrase shortly; it was a misstep.

Thank you for your work! I run my own federated homeserver that I really enjoy digging in with on the weekends. Between selfhosting email and Synapse I really feel a sense of reverent ownership over these methods of communication.

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#259

Post by sneak »

Arathorn wrote: post #242
sneak wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riot and almost all of the other clients I tried all phone home to some kind of metadata/identity or push server that is run by some private company I’ve never heard of (which isn’t part of Matrix/Riot). Check out its network traffic sometime.

Riot only ever talks to identity servers (which simply maintain a directory of matrix users by phone number or email address) if you actually try to look up a user by one of those identifiers, and if you actually opt in to it. We used to do it without opt-in when you searched, but this was fixed at https://matrix.org/blog/2019/09/27/privacy-improvements-in-s... . For Push, whatever app you use needs to have a push se…

It does not appear that your statement is accurate.

I just fired up Riot 1.6.2, the latest available from the site.

It makes three connections, one each to matrix.org, vector.im, and riot.im on startup.

Even after removing application settings and preferences, it connects to all three of those on startup, just sitting at the login screen, not signed in to anything. I didn't opt in, and I didn't look anything up; it was automatic (and silent!) on a blank install.

That's completely unacceptable, and counts as telemetry to three separate parties, whether intentional or not.

The local app should not send any traffic whatsoever when launched and sitting at the login/signup screen. It should make a connection to the homeserver chosen to log in to, and that server alone.

I just filed it as a bug again: https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/13942

Re: Looking back at how Signal works

#260

Post by Vinnl »

gdmka wrote: post #257
Vinnl wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was exploring emoji reactions yesterday while my Android contact admitted the feature was not yet available for his device. That's weird? Do you mean this feature: https://signal.org/blog/reactions/ ? I'm on Android, and it's been available to me for ages...

The extended emoji reactions were rolled out couple of days ago.

Does that mean being able to react with more than the six emoji's I can currently use?
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