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Supreme Court says state may enforce some restrictions on religious gatherings [pdf]

supremecourt.gov

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Re: Supreme Court says state may enforce some restrictions on religious gatherings [pdf]

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m strongly in favor out stronger gun control but find your argument here reasonable. After a bit of googling I see that gun stores are indeed allowed to provide for curbside pickup and are open: http://reedsindoorrange.com/

Well, I use to be in favor of gun control. But, knowing what I do about the history of this country, any “War on Guns” will be just like the War on anything else, it will target minorities. We’ve already seen this in California. When the Black Panther Party legally started carrying guns, Reagan was quick to pass the Mulliford Act when he was governor - with the support of the NRA.

  Reagan was quick to pass the Mulliford (sic) Act
Reagan signed the Mulford Act, but it would have become law without his signature anyway. It was passed in the Assembly and Senate, neither of which was controlled by his party.

Re: Supreme Court says state may enforce some restrictions on religious gatherings [pdf]

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I use to be in favor of gun control. But, knowing what I do about the history of this country, any “War on Guns” will be just like the War on anything else, it will target minorities. We’ve already seen this in California. When the Black Panther Party legally started carrying guns, Reagan was quick to pass the Mulliford Act when he was governor - with the support of the NRA.

Reagan was quick to pass the Mulliford (sic) Act Reagan signed the Mulford Act, but it would have become law without his signature anyway. It was passed in the Assembly and Senate, neither of which was controlled by his party.

So that makes it a lot better. It’s not like Reagan reluctant signed it. He said that he saw no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.

But yes I am well aware that the Democrats have a racist past and were the major proponents of segregation in the south in the 60s.

You act as if my mistrust of the government only occurs if the government is run by Republicans.

Re: Supreme Court says state may enforce some restrictions on religious gatherings [pdf]

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not looking for a solution for a problem that is not mine. I am looking to understand how people see the Constitution is ignored (not sure what is the right term) and feel fine about that. My line of thought is that everything in the Constitution can be ignored in the same way, so it is completely worthless and no right does really exist because it can be revoked by a law or government statute at any point. Peop…

It is not ignored, but there is a long practice of interpreting it and defining exactly what it means. You have to spend some effort here in understand it and how it has changed through history instead of expecting to be able to just read the law and fully understand what it means.

Then the law is a failure; if it is written in such a way that regular people cannot understand it (because it does not mean what it says?) and it needs to be "interpreted", then the law failed because it is not what it was written, but what the people want to interpret it based on their own interests: this leads to corruption.

In the same logic, Pythagoras' theorem should be interpreted because it is very old, it had a different meaning when it was written and we need to adapt it to current realities. For example, it should be restricted to triangles with less than 100 inches on the longest side; anyone that disagrees must show a legitimate need for having bigger triangles and even then, the theorem needs to respect criminal laws or the country. Or, as an Australian Prime minister said, "The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia." /s

Re: Supreme Court says state may enforce some restrictions on religious gatherings [pdf]

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quoted the text already a few times; it is broad enough to include free practice. Do you disagree?

Yes, I disagree. Free Exercise has never meant "do whatever you want" because that would have rendered all other laws moot. The Reynolds case has a good discussion of what was going on in the heads of the BOR convention. In a nutshell, religion was viewed as "beliefs" not "actions." (There is a letter from Jefferson on this point.) So the free exercise of religion was understood to mean the freedom to believe whateve…

So what is the meaning of "free exercise"? What was meant 230 years ago? In plain English, that text was not written by aliens in a rare Klingonian dialect and "interpreted" by Ferengi looking for some profit$$$.

Free exercise for almost any religion includes going to the places or worship, without restrictions. At the time the article was written, there was no video conferencing so it was definitely considering going to the church as part of exercising the religion.

Re: Supreme Court says state may enforce some restrictions on religious gatherings [pdf]

#255
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are projecting your opinion. >all you would have had to do was stay home, is the very definition of selfishness. Staying at home for extended periods is not the easy thing people seem to project. Social gathering are very important to a lot of people. Religious gathering are the same. Telling people that there is no "risk analysis" here is both dishonest and dangerous.

People shouldn't have to stay home since it is hard?! Walking thousands of miles in the winter is hard. Fleeing an invading army is hard. Living through a famine is hard. Staying at home is not hard. And if it is, learning how to do hard things is a skill that everyone should develop.

That's a valid opinion.

It could also be that things are more of a spectrum than black and white.

Re: Supreme Court says state may enforce some restrictions on religious gatherings [pdf]

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But for others being denied access to religious services or practice may be a grave sin that is worse than having to wait in longer lines at the grocery store Earnest belief has also led to self inflicted wounds, drowning, and hanging others. I don't think religion should get a pass or get preferencial treatment.

A US government does not get to tell people how to practice religion beyond making a determination whether the belief system is a religion. And, making a determination if a particular practice is legal (to exclude harms like you mention). That is why I have been careful to describe protected religious practices using the term 'otherwise lawful religious practice'. The plaintiffs clearly practice a religion. Going to…

Food > faith

If you've known any religious people who successfully fasted all food for over a month then you may have seen the evidence for yourself. (Even as a once religious person I found it shocking.)

Re: Supreme Court says state may enforce some restrictions on religious gatherings [pdf]

#257
post #241
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's your opinion, a right is retained despite majority opinions. Constitutional rights specifically outline legitimate relationship between government and governed where violating that constraint breaks the contract allowing the government to make and enforce laws.

My understanding is people have rights that trump whatever religion they are born into, i.e. the fundamental rights listed in the declaration of independence.

In the US you must opt-in to a religion. Parents can raise you according to their religion,the bill of rights applies to government not parents so they can tell you whato to say do and believe. Basic human rights are protected for most people (except prisoners I guess),but also additional rights for children exist both at the state and federal level. The idea of being born into a religion is not recognized. The declaration of independence is apparently not a legal document you can use in court. If it was,the fundamental rights you mentioned according to that document are self-evident and are given to mankind by God, meaning government cannot implement laws against the self-evident will of God and the self-evident rights of God has given to mankind. It was the foundation of their argument for independence, since after all King George is legitimate only because the people believe he was divinely appointed,deriving authority from God.

This idea that democracies exist in acknowledgement of God and derive legitimacy not simply because they represent the people's will but because they protect the people's God-given rights(even for the minority) was well accepted well into the past century. Some even reallized how the atheistic views of communism is incompatible with democracy.

Even moving past independence, could Abraham Lincoln have made the argument that slavery must be abolished due to "all people are created equal" if he was a communist ? That argument was relevant because it was once again the government taking away people's God-given rights.

If you wonder why your rights are treated so cheaply and all the freedom you have is fading so rapidly is because no one,not the government,not the majority of people or the few that fight for rights acknowledge that the foundation of these fundamental rights is God's authority, that a government and a country while sovreign relative to other countries,there is only absolute sovreign from whom all authority and rights are derived. But going back to what you said, the fundamental rights might as well be fiction to the legal system and SCOTUS,the constitution itself is the document they think is "a living document" they can interpret as they see fit without regard to where absolute rights and liberties originate.

Re: Supreme Court says state may enforce some restrictions on religious gatherings [pdf]

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I use to be in favor of gun control. But, knowing what I do about the history of this country, any “War on Guns” will be just like the War on anything else, it will target minorities. We’ve already seen this in California. When the Black Panther Party legally started carrying guns, Reagan was quick to pass the Mulliford Act when he was governor - with the support of the NRA.

Reagan was quick to pass the Mulliford (sic) Act Reagan signed the Mulford Act, but it would have become law without his signature anyway. It was passed in the Assembly and Senate, neither of which was controlled by his party.

> Reagan signed the Mulford Act, but it would have become law without his signature anyway. It was passed in the Assembly and Senate, neither of which was controlled by his party.

A member of his party, Republican Assemblyman Don Mulford, was the one who introduced the Mulford act, which was named after him. Reagan openly supported the ban on open carry. If you are going to split hairs on which party did which, you should mention who actually introduced the bill.

https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

Re: Supreme Court says state may enforce some restrictions on religious gatherings [pdf]

#259
post #257
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is people have rights that trump whatever religion they are born into, i.e. the fundamental rights listed in the declaration of independence.

In the US you must opt-in to a religion. Parents can raise you according to their religion,the bill of rights applies to government not parents so they can tell you whato to say do and believe. Basic human rights are protected for most people (except prisoners I guess),but also additional rights for children exist both at the state and federal level. The idea of being born into a religion is not recognized. The decla…

I don't think muslim children in the US necessarily get to opt into their religion.

And yes, it is hard to argue for universal human rights without some sort of transcendental argument that there is something special and universal about humanity. As Solzhenitsyn says, the main problem with communism is they've forgotten God.

Re: Supreme Court says state may enforce some restrictions on religious gatherings [pdf]

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If black powder and shot for a muzzle loader are available, has your right been abridged?" Your idea has been deemed dangerous by the internet police, and your ISP connection will be cancelled. Don't worry, you are still free to write a letter to your local newspaper, so your rights have not been infringed. Our rights are naturally extended with technological advances in the same spirit. Demanding cell tower records…

"Our rights are naturally extended with technological advances in the same spirit" It seems to me that very frequently, people declare something to be completely different just because it uses new technology. And then people argue if it really is different or not. There's never an airtight proof of who is right. A saying that I think I may have first seen on HN is something about quantity having a quality all its own…

>“though I have no doubt exceptions can be brought forward, I think the following rule would be found generally true: that ages in which the dominant weapon is expensive or difficult to make will tend to be ages of despotism, whereas when the dominant weapon is cheap and simple, the common people have a chance. Thus, for example, tanks, battleships and bombing planes are inherently tyrannical weapons, while rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon — so long as there is no answer to it — gives claws to the weak.”

-George Orwell

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