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Career advice for people with bad luck

chiefofstuff.substack.com

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Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it's because there isn't much advice to give. My answer, having checked a few of your boxes... Your lifetime wages are going to be lower than many of your peers. This is unlikely to change. Adjust your worldview accordingly. Don't assume any debt that relies on increasing future earnings to be comfortable. By all means, keep trying, but stay level headed. Success for most is not always right around the corn…

> Read some philosophy. Buy a reliable used car. Look inward for contentment. Try therapy if your shitty childhood and shitty parents made inward a hard place to look. I'd recommend the following: 1. Meditations - Marcus Aurelius 2. 12 Rules for Life - Jordan B Peterson 3. Letters from a self made merchant - John Graham

JBP's 12 Rules for Life is dangerous advice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtwP6AbbAUc

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been studying for the past two years and have failed at multiple FAANGs, some twice. Failed at FB, NFLX, AMZN, in addition to MSFT and UBER. Then again, I'm not entry level (10 yoe), so I might be competing at a higher bar. However, I'd gladly join any of these companies as a junior engineer without hesitation. I've seen stories of, amongst others, someone who studied while in prison get into GOOG, someone who w…

How much time are you spending specifically on interview question practice (HackerRank/Leetcode)? I've got close to 20 years of programming experience, including working at Google for several years and launching some very high-profile projects. I still fail interviews if I haven't studied for them. You could argue that it's a stupid system where they test 20-minute coding exercises with a trick answer, and you'd be r…

At the start of the process, I began with comp sci/DS&A fundamentals - including books like Algorithm Design Manual, Intro to Algorithms, etc. Took a few months break to get married, then resumed, eventually starting to 100% grind leetcode problems. As my wife can amusingly attest - I no longer have any hobbies or other personal entertainment since we got married. Studying for interviews consumes all the free time I have that I don't spend with her.

Add to that, since last year, my day job got a lot less demanding, so I am actually studying/leetcoding during the afternoon at work too.

One wrench thrown into the loop is that I am a mainly a frontend engineer by trade, and it seems frontend interviews at FAANG and many other top tech companies are focusing less on leetcode/DS&A and more on JavaScript trivia problems. So that has been a context shift, and I am focusing more on getting as many JavaScript tricks and patterns into my repertoire now, and less on leetcode.

Pretty much my #1 personal goal in life at the moment is to get into a FAANG, or at least similar caliber, company. No, it's not a life or death matter, but whereas someone else might be content to watch TV/Netflix, or play games, or go golfing, I'm spending that time leetcoding...

What I feel torpedoes me during the interview is that I can get often get 90%+ of a solution, even if it's a problem I haven't seen before. But some edge case or bug in my code kills me, or I miss some trick or pattern that is the key to getting it right. In a less competitive company, this might mean passing the interview, but for a FAANG or similarly highly competitive company, I feel not getting 100% technical perfection means dead on arrival.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#253
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Step 1: Get a well paying job at a big tech company. There is very little luck involved in this, just get really good at algorithms. No need for a famous school, specific degree etc. It requires intelligence, if you don't have that then you need luck. Sorry but no. Like everyone else has pointed out, this is so far from the truth that I’m actually in awe that someone would write this. There is a ton of luck involve…

You got rejected twice - so keep applying. Getting into a big company is mostly a matter of perseverance from what I've seen.

Perseverance can help, but what you say doesn’t discredit what I’m pointing out - that you just might not have Lady Luck on your side.

Again, anecdotal data. I did keep trying at other big tech companies. I did get a good job where I was hoping to save money, build a career, etc. Exactly as OP planned. You know what happened? COVID-19 led to mass layoffs less than a year after I got hired. Now I’m back to square one. I’ve barely recovered the savings I spent moving, which as others have already pointed out, is a prerequisite to OP’s advice. Sometimes luck simply isn’t on your side. To say that all it takes is intelligence and hard work is simply not true.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#254
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at Japan as well, really easy to get in to work but money is not as good as NA. I don’t really know EU market

I'm a Dutchie, and I can't speak about the EU market as a whole, but as any European that travels around a bit, I have the following ranking in terms of lifestyle/pay: 1. Switzerland (90k or higher + mountains if you're willing to drive a bit) 2. Luxembourg (I just remember you get paid quite a bit) 3. Berlin (alright pay, low living costs, amazing city) 4. England + Scandinavia + The Netherlands (didn't look into Sc…

The issue with geo-arbitraging is that when you work somewhere for an extended period of time, you put resources into your life there. Retiring by leaving your home and friends etc. doesn't seem nearly as sweet.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#255
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something similar happened to me during this outbreak. Got my CS degree from a no-name university in a third world country a few years back, got a job in one of those software sweatshops getting paid peanuts, moved to a new one an year later where I worked my ass off to learn things and generally be a good developer, but here too I was paid a pittance, mostly due to my education and previous job. I hated working here…

You probably already know that, but sometimes it helps to hear it again: The world is a competitive place, and a lot of success factors are outside of your control. (timing, pre-existing resources, sheer luck) What you can control is exactly what you are already doing: Work really hard and make the best of what you have. Come up with a good long term plan and execute it. Do life decisions that help with that plan. Th…

So, why is this encouraging and helpful message being downvoted into gray? I can only assume some salty graduates are lashing out.

Don't do that to yourself, i.e. living bitter and angry. Engage with those you disagree with by conversing. Correct them or be corrected and learn.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#256

> Your equity package is a lottery ticket with expected value of zero. While this is true, it's vastly more true for startups and privately owned companies vs publicly owned. Amazon's stock price might fluctuate but the chances of it being worthless are slim.

But equity packages are typically stock options , not stock. So they're only worth anything if the stock price goes way up.

For publicly traded companies, many equity packages now include RSUs, or give you the option to choose between options and RSUs. Which are worth something so long as the stock has any value. Perhaps I am twisting the value of what equity package means.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#257

I really want to see more articles like this on HN. However, this is really "career advice for people at struggling companies." The luck part doesn't get discussed in the way I expected. To me, bad luck is things like: - You're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ex. you graduated in 2008-2010/now or your business sector got wiped out by COVID - Despite your best efforts at networking, you simply never meet that ma…

Well, I definitely hit at least 3 of these things.

#1 (good luck landing a decent job in 2009) #2 (turns out no one cares about you when you're unemployed) #5 (not Ivy League and mediocre GPA)

Safety net was decent, so I was able to at least look for a job for some time.

#4 doesn't really apply.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#258
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something similar happened to me during this outbreak. Got my CS degree from a no-name university in a third world country a few years back, got a job in one of those software sweatshops getting paid peanuts, moved to a new one an year later where I worked my ass off to learn things and generally be a good developer, but here too I was paid a pittance, mostly due to my education and previous job. I hated working here…

You probably already know that, but sometimes it helps to hear it again: The world is a competitive place, and a lot of success factors are outside of your control. (timing, pre-existing resources, sheer luck) What you can control is exactly what you are already doing: Work really hard and make the best of what you have. Come up with a good long term plan and execute it. Do life decisions that help with that plan. Th…

Disclaimer: I don't know much about 3rd world countries other than my recent trip to Africa and talking to some locals there. In short I've learned: access to healthcare is completely and utterly fucked (this is why maximum age seems to be 40 in the villages that I went to), getting food is a struggle but doable if you know what you're doing (you just plant stuff somewhere and hope it doesn't get robbed), you'll have a mud house somewhere, you'll be living close with your family, you'll be relying a lot on your community and your community relies on you.

My point of this entire comment is to say: be a bit careful with your words when you're from a 1st world country and the person you comment to lives in an entirely different context.

--- My actual comment ---

You seem to be based in the USA. This person is from a 3rd world country. Your advice looks like its written for an American, not someone who lives in a 3rd world country.

For example, I can imagine that a lot of people don't think that the world is a competitive place but a criminal one. Why? Because there are a lot of mercantile practices going on. Your passport matters. There is no meritocracy in this world, only passports.

Make the best of what you have in some cases can be translated to: try to fucking survive and I'm sorry that your relative passed away from malaria and that we had no money for medicine, and even if we did have money the infrastructure would be too broken to bring it fast enough. Sadly enough, that happens quite often. Technically, that's still the same as "make the best of what you have". But I can imagine that it can be perceived quite negatively, as some might see that there's some implied sarcasm there.

> This will make you more successful than your relative peer group

So instead of having an average age of 50, you'll get to be 60? More successful for sure. Yet, I can feel the unfairness to 1st worlders who get to be 80.

> It's a long game.

I don't think everyone perceives life to be a game. I know I do at times. But I also happen to know family members that almost die from hunger (rare thing to happen in The Netherlands but it does). I am sure that to them in those moments life is not a game. Because of that, I also believe that enough people who suffer from poverty or are threatened by it don't perceive life to be a game.

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In closing: I think your comment was actually well meant. But since I see that you were downvoted I decided to take the time to explain how your comment seems to be missing the mark to me personally. I assume that other people have a similar enough interpretation of it.

FYI I didn't downvote, as I think your comment was well meant.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#259
post #216

The concept of "bad luck" is reinforced by endless self-comparison with those who had extremely good luck. It's MUCH more valuable to compare yourself to those who are unlucky: the mentally disabled, those who died from COVID at age 29, those born/raised in North Korea. Compared to these people, we've all hit the fucking jackpot. Adjust your mindset and you'll notice you're luckier than you thought you were.

“Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.” ― Viktor E. Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning

“But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.” -- George Orwell, 1984

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it's because there isn't much advice to give. My answer, having checked a few of your boxes... Your lifetime wages are going to be lower than many of your peers. This is unlikely to change. Adjust your worldview accordingly. Don't assume any debt that relies on increasing future earnings to be comfortable. By all means, keep trying, but stay level headed. Success for most is not always right around the corn…

I don't think luck is as "random" of a factor as much as most people think it is. Checkout "Luck Factor" by Dr. Richard Wiseman. I do think there are a lot of things you can due to get probability more on your side: - Keep your eyes open for opportunities and look for the upside ("be optimistic" is the woo-woo version), but it's been proven in experiments that you'll catch things others won't - Only keep friends arou…

IMHO we are not only discussing luck but also our imperfect and fallible nature as people. All you say is excellent advice, but -- sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.
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