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Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

reuters.com

251–260 of 399 posts

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem politically smart to me for Amazon to so blatantly open itself up to state and federal investigation, at a time when the president of the United States hates their leadership's guts and the Democratic Party is on a massive pro-workers kick. Amazon has spent billions trying to replace the human component of its distribution. It would utterly fall apart if warehouse workers stop working. What's wrong wi…

>reducing the throughput a little bit so that people don't have to work in close proximity to each other? The funny part is they already are, for non-essential items.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#252
post #23

I wonder what their recruiting team thinks about these moves by the company. I know I will not work for Amazon seeing how the manage dissent at the company and I’m sure there are many other people who feel the same.

Is there any real data on how many people would NOT want to work for AWS because of how they treat their warehouse workers?

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really fair. Jobs are sometimes hard to get, and landing a job at Amazon could make a huge difference in someone's life.

I see no downside of allowing your employer to actively exploit others, simply because they're not (currently) exploiting you. "They've always been good to me", you say, "I never would have expected this."

We all have to eat. Working there and exposing their problems with the credibility of being an insider has a lot of value. I’m not saying working there is necessarily moral, but capitalism requires us all to choose between various immoral choices (have you looked at how your phone is made?). The only real thing to do is try to organize to stop it imo.

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#254
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon.com Inc (AMZN.O) said on Tuesday it terminated two employees, who criticized the working conditions It doesn't sound like Amazon is attempting to hide anything here.

By firing them, they are reinforcing the idea they they don't care about working conditions. A reprimand likely wouldn't have made the news. I assume they want less buzz about work conditions.

The Streisand effect is when someone actively takes actions to hide information, but it backfires. I haven't seen any evidence of them taking actions to hide any information.

>I assume they want less buzz about work conditions.

I don't think this is the case. They have been public about responding to the media and have been posting daily updates through their own site. The link to their blog discussing workers' conditions is on the front page of Amazon.com.

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is legal, but, I believe, completely unacceptable to just about everyone. This is not true in my experience. Many people on the left, particularly under 35, earnestly believe that their political opponents are by definition racist and evil. In a manner similar to how I would not want a literal neo-nazi on my company's payroll, they do not want a registered Republican on the company's payroll. Edit: In other word…

It is my experience that everyone who self identifies as a republican or democrat is brainwashed at this point. The worst offenders are those who are so delusional that they mock anyone who avoids political discourse or abstains from voting. They are so high on political fumes that they can’t imagine that there are things more important than our cancerous political process.

I agree there are serious problems with brainwashing on both sides. My criticism was directed leftward only because it seemed most relevant to my disagreement with the GP.

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#256
post #156

> “We support every employee’s right to criticize their employer’s working conditions,” a spokesperson said, “but that does not come with blanket immunity against any and all internal policies.” What a strange statement. "We support their right to criticize their working conditions, only actually we don't at all"

Doublespeak.

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody's getting fired for suggesting the top marginal tax rate should be lower, or expressing the value of hard work and individual responsibility. The apparent phenomenon you allude to is the result of the normalization of sexist, racist, and xenophobic beliefs within the "conservative" sphere over the past few decades. Those beliefs are incompatible with being a member of a pluralistic workforce.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the attitude you should be watching out for. Not the one loudly and obnoxiously shouting offensive and obviously antisocial opinions. Recognizing that one is easy. No, the opinion to watch out for is the one who fervently believes that it is the arbiter of what is socially acceptable to say, and is the interpreter of the rules by which it's enforced. Dare to raise a topic of discussion t…

The comment you’re replying to didn’t actually say that; you’re straw manning their position of course; they just said there are positions that include judgments of the inherent worth of one’s coworkers that are unacceptable, implying what those are should be socially determined.

And I’m sorry but every single “scientific” racist dresses it up in these blowhard high-minded-sounding fake victim terms so it really makes you look like you’re a “scientific” racist too.

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#258
post #156

> “We support every employee’s right to criticize their employer’s working conditions,” a spokesperson said, “but that does not come with blanket immunity against any and all internal policies.” What a strange statement. "We support their right to criticize their working conditions, only actually we don't at all"

Not at all. They'll support your right to say what you want. They'll fire you anyway, but ... Go, you!

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#259
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything wrong about that... Because that is if you don't agree with company policy or whatever company is doing, you should not work there. They should lose all employees and go bust. In practice I understand one would like to disagree and things should change to better. But life is not that simple, so if you can afford quitting please do so (if you are wealthy enough even in their face saying what they…

We can always count on someone on Hackernews to defend billion dollar companies in the face of workers abuse "they could always quit!". They clearly don't care if you criticize internally, there is a need to expose those bad practices in the press.

Good luck reading the first part only mate! After you cool down read 4th and 5th paragraph, if you would make it to 3rd maybe you would notice something more...

Re: Amazon fires two UX designers critical of warehouse working conditions

#260
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all of us learned these lessons the hard way, what's amazing is how much resistance I've encountered when I try to share this wisdom with folks in their early 20's. I guess the old adage is true, people like to learn their own lessons.

The resistance you're finding is not people disbelieving you, it's them trying to get you to understand that this is a Bad Thing we should want to change, even though it is true right now.

Well, hold on: do you think it's really a "Bad Thing", and by your capitalisation I'm guessing you mean universally a bad thing to experience negative consequences for publicly trash-talking about your employer?

Sure, if you're whistleblowing something systemically unethical - as may well be the case here - then you should be able to do the right thing without fear of negative consequence. I.e., your employer, Amazon in this case, can't fire you.

However, speaking in more general terms, some people just love to whine and complain about things that simply aren't that important: I've worked with plenty (none at the moment, I hasten to add).

For example, and flipping it around: is it a Good Thing for you to trash talk your employer just because you don't happen to like your boss very much? No, I don't think it is, and I think it's entirely reasonable for you to get into trouble if you do.

Is it a Good Thing to trash talk a potential employer because you didn't like their hiring process? No. If other potential employers read what you've said they might choose not to interview you even if your concerns are legitimate. You can stand on principle if you want but of all the issues in the world you could stand on principle about, is this one really worth it? I'd say not but you may disagree.

Getting more serious: what about if your boss is a bully? Should you publicly trash talk them? No! Are you out of your mind?!?? You should do some research and find out how to deal with it effectively and in a way that doesn't damage your future career prospects, either at your current company (which may be a lost cause) or elsewhere, which may include getting and following legal advice.

Certainly for these serious issues: bullying, sexual harassment, discrimination, and so on, if the issues are with a specific individual, rather than a systemic or cultural problem, whistleblowing is probably not the way to go. Note that for certain safety issues, or breaches relating to personally identifiable information, you may have a legal obligation to notify even for isolated incidents, depending on your jurisdiction (IANAL).

The problem with trash-talking your employer, or even former employers, is that you risk sending a signal to potential future employers that you are a troublemaker. In some cases this is not an illegitimate concern, and because of this employers tend to be cautious, which can harm your prospects.

Let me reiterate that I'm talking about trash talking in general, not the specific case of these Amazon employees, and very much not whistleblower activities involving systemic ethical failings by an employer or organisation.

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