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The Wolfram Physics Project

writings.stephenwolfram.com

251–260 of 342 posts

Re: The Wolfram Physics Project

#251
A lot of people criticize Wolfram, but I think the project he's pursuing is definitely worthwhile. Quantization has proven to be an incredibly powerful tool, and it's only the first step to turning our continuous physics into a discrete model.

Starting with cellular automata is flipping the table over and starting the game anew, starting with discrete models instead of continuous models, with the ultimate goal of producing a purely discrete theory for all of physics.

Discretizing everything has the potential to provide new mathematical tools and new insights that our continuous theories might obscure. There's a lot of hidden computation in the reals and complex numbers that a discrete theory would have to explicitly unpack, and some of these details might potentially shed light on some real puzzles.

Re: The Wolfram Physics Project

#252
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oy, I've been dreading having to answer this question since I pressed "post" :) I've decided that I do not have the time or interest in writing the Related Work section for a paper-length blog post touching on an enormous number of fields, some of which I know well and some of which I haven't thought about in a decade. (As an aside, one real and substantive problem with trying to build a research program without taki…

I would like the PL theory analogue of "emulation cones" and "rulial space" please :) If these concepts don't have a single name that you can just rattle off, and that we can Google - if describing them in terms of existing theory would take serious effort - then surely identifying and naming them is a major contribution?

[deleted]

Re: The Wolfram Physics Project

#253
post #102

I don't see anything of substance here, besides a lot of pretty graphs. Just like Wolfram's "A New Kind of Science", we have the problem that there is a vast gulf between what you need to make flashy popsci and what you need to make a real physical theory. In increasing order of difficulty, you need to: 1. make a set of dynamical rules that matches general relativity in the low energy limit, such as recovering Lorent…

> But we already had way too many possibilities using ordinary mathematics! We need to narrow down on specifics, not muddy the waters by making things even more general.

Building a more general tool can sometimes solve a specific problem than trying to tackle the specific problem directly.

I also think you're missing the forest for the trees here. There are many general relationships in physics that are spontaneously appearing in the structure of Wolfram's hypergraphs. That's interesting enough on its own to be worth further research.

In one sense, this shared structure shouldn't be surprising, because it's often harder to not make something Turing complete, so in a way I expect a lot of shared structure between physics and various general computational models. On the other hand, it's getting harder to squeeze more progress out of traditional approaches, so shrinking a computational model to exactly match physics on long timescales is a unique attack vector worth exploring.

Re: The Wolfram Physics Project

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading through the paper in (3) above. If I understand the text on page 26 correctly, you predict that quantum computers will not be more efficient than classical computers: "The class of problems that can be solved efficiently by quantum computers should be identical to the class of problems that can be solved efficiently by classical computers: More precisely, we predict in this appropriately coarse-grained case t…

In your last sentence, you compare future quantum computers to “today’s” non-quantum computers, which might be a false dichotomy. [warning: uninformed tangent] A more optimistic interpretation could be that quantum & non-quantum machines will be similar because we have huge leaps to make in non-quantum computer architecture. This is strictly a theoretical thought-experiment for me, but it has always intrigued me that…

> However, perhaps there is room in analog computing hardware to more closely model specific types of optimization problems & then shove a bunch of electrons through it (shouldn’t the electrons follow the path of least resistance?).

Congratulations, you've rediscovered quantum annealing!

Re: The Wolfram Physics Project

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally, i.e. the fabric of space-time. Then particles and energy are patterns in the graph -- that we can describe useful physics in terms of the graph, but that the graph just is, it's not a description or approximation of something deeper. Unless there's a semantic difference you're getting at that I'm not aware of?

Interesting concept, but I fail to see how it can model the whole universe. Describing it, maybe, but the universe being a graph, well for a start, what is the graph made of? Is it "material" is it "information"?

Any fundamental theory of the universe will have to posit a bottom, base structure that everything else is "made" out of...

...but therefore that base isn't ever going to be made of anything itself, by definition. It just is. It is what it's described as -- no more, no less.

It's not going to be material or energy. I suppose "information" is probably as good a word as any if you want to think of it that way.

Re: The Wolfram Physics Project

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have, as I said in response to your other version of the same question :)

"Perhaps the single most[0] significant idea conveyed within Stephen Wolfram’s A New Kind of Science , and the initial intellectual seedling from which the contents of the book subsequently grow, is the abstract empirical discovery that the “computational universe” - that is, the space of all possible programs - is far richer, more diverse and more vibrant than one might reasonably expect. The fact that such intricat…

>[4] Why just one rule?

Is a specific combination of rules not itself a rule? A lot of descriptions of Conway's Game of Life describe it as multiple rules, and other places refer to its whole setup as a "rule". Rule 30 is sometimes called a "rule set". I don't think there's a strict difference between a rule set and a rule, though the simpler rule(set) the better seems to be easy to agree on.

...

>(5) I would direct this last point at all TOE-heads like Wolfram and Weinstein and whoever. Why does it have to be simple? Why does it have to be elegant?

A theory with fewer free parameters is better than one with more. I think this extends to the complexity of the theory too: a theory with more rules (rule A applies to small stuff, rule B applies to big stuff, rule AB-patch applies to mediumish stuff) is worse than as a theory that explains the same stuff with fewer rules (a single rule X that naturally has A-behavior with small stuff and B-behavior with big stuff) in the same way a theory with more free parameters is worse than a theory with similar predictions and fewer free parameters.

It's Occam's Razor. Complex theories can have lots of different variants that each match the existing evidence but make different predictions in untested scenarios. Simpler theories have fewer variants that successfully match the existing evidence and tend to be more useful for making predictions, indicating that they match reality better.

>And the rule hardly runs itself. What does it run on? Great you have a generalised term-rewriting system (how completely un-novel). "What rewrites the terms?* How is this not the first question you ask yourself?

Is that not an obstacle for any theory? Tons of theories are meant to model what we see, without presuming some underlying mechanism. Newton came up with a theory of gravitation that modeled how objects tend to pull each other in without any idea of why nature chose for that to happen.

Even if the idea that not explaining what executes the rule of reality is a problem, then a simpler theory with fewer rules is obviously better because there's fewer unexplained rules.

>[5] Hey, why not just say: “You know that "it from bit" idea? We have a hunch that term rewriting hypergraphs is the way to go. These are our explorations. We've encountered stuff that echoes contemporary physics.” Why not write the intro like that? Not grandiose enough for you?

Personally, I found their intro to have a lot more background detail and motivation explained. Is your primary objection really that they were too grand for a few paragraphs?

>(1) Given that we know that any sufficiently powerful computing system can emulate any another what motivates your choosing this particular computational system and model?

Any system capable of having relativity and QM-like effects emerge out of it as described is interesting enough to study, even if it did end up having defects that meant it couldn't be a good model of reality overall.

I feel like you're treating this as if he's asking everyone to commit themselves fully to this model instead of to explore it.

>(5) I would direct this last point at all TOE-heads like Wolfram and Weinstein and whoever. Why does it have to be simple? Why does it have to be elegant? Why is it always encoded in the formal systems you happen to play around with (geometry for Weinstein, term-rewriting systems / cellular automata for Wolfram).

Presumably they chose those systems to play around to begin with because they believe those systems were promising.

Re: The Wolfram Physics Project

#258
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oy, I've been dreading having to answer this question since I pressed "post" :) I've decided that I do not have the time or interest in writing the Related Work section for a paper-length blog post touching on an enormous number of fields, some of which I know well and some of which I haven't thought about in a decade. (As an aside, one real and substantive problem with trying to build a research program without taki…

I would like the PL theory analogue of "emulation cones" and "rulial space" please :) If these concepts don't have a single name that you can just rattle off, and that we can Google - if describing them in terms of existing theory would take serious effort - then surely identifying and naming them is a major contribution?

PL theory is a bit of a hobby of mine, but I don't really see an exact equivalent to what Wolfram seems to be describing. His rules are like rules in a term rewriting system, but the rules of rulial space are permitted to change so they may be more expressive, perhaps like a higher-order rewrite system.

Re: The Wolfram Physics Project

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, his "emulation cones" are a new name for a very old and extremely well-studied idea. The term "rulial space", similarly, is a new name for an idea that's well-developed in programming language theory. What are the names for these old, well-studied things in programming language theory, so we can look them up?

Oy, I've been dreading having to answer this question since I pressed "post" :) I've decided that I do not have the time or interest in writing the Related Work section for a paper-length blog post touching on an enormous number of fields, some of which I know well and some of which I haven't thought about in a decade. (As an aside, one real and substantive problem with trying to build a research program without taki…

Earlier you wrote 'For example, his "emulation cones" are a new name for a very old and extremely well-studied idea. The term "rulial space", similarly, is a new name for an idea that's well-developed in programming language theory.'

I don't understand how things could be extremely well studied and developed, but also not exist in some fashion where you could just name and link to it in a matter of minutes rather than hours. Example "emulation cones are called X here".

I've listened to Wolfram and skimmed one of his books before deciding he's beyond my ability to evaluate as genius or crackpot. I'd love to be able to nail down a specific thing where I could read about some existing topic and then read about Wolfram claiming to reinvent it or something, because that could help me learn towards one conclusion over the other in the genius versus crackpot consideration.

One frustrating thing that I often find is that much of Wolfram criticism is non-specific and as it's impossible for me to bucket Wolfram I can't bucket his critics either because they tend not to provide enough detail or clarity.

Re: The Wolfram Physics Project

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, his "emulation cones" are a new name for a very old and extremely well-studied idea. The term "rulial space", similarly, is a new name for an idea that's well-developed in programming language theory. What are the names for these old, well-studied things in programming language theory, so we can look them up?

Oy, I've been dreading having to answer this question since I pressed "post" :) I've decided that I do not have the time or interest in writing the Related Work section for a paper-length blog post touching on an enormous number of fields, some of which I know well and some of which I haven't thought about in a decade. (As an aside, one real and substantive problem with trying to build a research program without taki…

Specifically just looking for a brief explanation of this line:

>For example, his "emulation cones" are a new name for a very old and extremely well-studied idea. The term "rulial space", similarly, is a new name for an idea that's well-developed in programming language theory.'

What's the old well-studied idea, and the well-developed programming theory idea? A one sentence reply is fine.

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