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Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

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Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#251

Post by magicsmoke »

chvid wrote: post #55

Is there any technical merit to this ban? Why would forcing use of web version mitigate any concerns? (The concerns I have heard are lack of proper end-to-end encryption, servers in China and the possibility to join chatrooms by guessing a name (zoom-bombing)).

https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/move-fast-roll-your-own-crypto...

"For those who have no choice but to use Zoom, including in contexts where secrets may be shared, we speculate that the browser plugin may have some marginally better security properties, as data transmission occurs over TLS."

Apparently the web version doesn't use their homegrown encryption scheme.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#252

Post by lern_too_spel »

bvandewalle wrote: post #121
NikolaNovak wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fascinating to see people's experiences. I've been using WebEx in enterprise/corporate environment for couple of years intensively, and it "just works". I can download desktop client, but I can also just run it on browser. Zoom always wants to install weird clients that violate policies and cause my corporate laptops to refuse or bork. I recognize my experience may be a minority one, but I'm surprised, genuinely…

The issue is that WebEx might just work for you, but if there is one person for whom it doesn't work then that is the limiting factor. What people struggle to understand is that Zoom made it easy accross ALL operating systems. While Webex might "just work" on a subset of Windows and Mac hosts. I use Linux as my day to day OS and WebEx is a nightmare (which sticks well to the stereotypical enterprise tool from Cisco).

Zoom is worse across most operating systems. It is worst of all on MacOS, where it downloads an installer without asking me. I then have to click a link saying that it didn't work, whereupon, it will download the installer again without asking me before finally giving me the option to join the call without installing that buggy app.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#253

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

uneekname wrote: post #190
downerending wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I feel much advantaged when no one can see my face. And in truth, I usually don't want to see anyone else's face either. Aren't there companies that forbid looking at someone for more than five seconds? Well guess what, on a video call, they're staring at you for minutes on end.

> Aren't there companies that forbid looking at someone for more than five seconds? Wait what? Could someone explain to me the reasoning behind a policy like this? Edit: it appears to be a sexual harassment policy, and apparently Netflix has tried it [0] [0] https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/netflix-five-second-s...

Extremely unlikely Netflix actually has a policy like this. It was probably an example of what could be considered creepy in some circumstances during a training.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#254

Post by fencepost »

com2kid wrote: post #191
NikolaNovak wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fascinating to see people's experiences. I've been using WebEx in enterprise/corporate environment for couple of years intensively, and it "just works". I can download desktop client, but I can also just run it on browser. Zoom always wants to install weird clients that violate policies and cause my corporate laptops to refuse or bork. I recognize my experience may be a minority one, but I'm surprised, genuinely…

WebEx on MacOS will, if left open and idle, randomly tell my headset that a phone call is starting, then it will disconnect it shortly after. Sometimes it disconnects two calls in a row (my headset announces when a call ends). And every so often by virtue of being open in the background, WebEx manages to somehow crash my BT headphones. Other than that, no real complaints.

Go into the Preferences, Video Systems (last item), uncheck "Automatically discover nearby devices"

The default behavior of Webex is to grab the microphone and keep it always-open looking for audio signals from Webex-compatible hardware.

I found this because I was bothered that even though I wasn't on a call Windows was telling me that Webex was actively using the Microphone, so I dug in. IIRC the post that guided me to this, on Apple devices with their earbuds it apparently also significantly degrades the sound due to some codec issue (or did in the past).

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#255

Post by distances »

StudentStuff wrote: post #114
gnicholas wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because then you're forced to dial in, which just puts you at a disadvantage when everyone can see everyone's face except yours. Can't they just participate in a call from the browser? I thought Google only banned the application/app, not usage of the service altogether.

The browser version of Zoom seems to require a free account be created, and it was audio only in Chromium, I could not get it to use my camera. Zoom refused to work in Firefox. Jitsi and Google Meet seem to work in both browsers, without requiring me to log in.

You can join Zoom meetings on your browser without creating an account. It's a bit off the beaten path:

1. Go to zoom.com 2. Click "Join a meeting" 3. Enter meeting id and click Join 4. Ignore the automatic app download 5. Go back 6. Click "Join a meeting" again 7. Enter meeting id and click Join again 8. Ignore the app download again 9. Click at "If nothing prompts, click here" 10. Click "Join from your browser" 11. Agree to terms of service 12. Enter password and name, click Join

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#256

Post by PopeDotNinja »

softwaredoug wrote: post #30

God please don't make me use a non-zoom video conferencing tool! I have used about a dozen over the years in my role as a consultant, and Zoom has been by far the most reliable. I’m hopeful lots of good can come from the scrutiny, but please Zoom get your act together so I don’t have to use some other buggy thing that doesn’t actually work.

Google should have no problem replacing Zoom. They have 14,638 chat apps to choose from. Wait, they just released another one, so make that 14,639.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#257

Post by kseifried »

walrus01 wrote: post #130
softwaredoug wrote: post #30

God please don't make me use a non-zoom video conferencing tool! I have used about a dozen over the years in my role as a consultant, and Zoom has been by far the most reliable. I’m hopeful lots of good can come from the scrutiny, but please Zoom get your act together so I don’t have to use some other buggy thing that doesn’t actually work.

> God please don't make me use a non-zoom video conferencing tool! I have honestly lost track of the amount of software I've seen in the past 20 years, that people insist they absolutely must continue to use despite its well documented gaping security flaws. Because it has a better UI or makes their life very slightly more convenient in some way. Versions of Microsoft Office from the early 2000s where an entire opera…

For everyone freaking out about zoom security, some facts: 52 CVEs for Zoom https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=zoom 240 for webex https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=webex 1 for gotomeeting https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=gotomeeting and 2 for pexip https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=pexip which means nobody is looking at the last two...

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#258

Post by fock »

bvandewalle wrote: post #121
NikolaNovak wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fascinating to see people's experiences. I've been using WebEx in enterprise/corporate environment for couple of years intensively, and it "just works". I can download desktop client, but I can also just run it on browser. Zoom always wants to install weird clients that violate policies and cause my corporate laptops to refuse or bork. I recognize my experience may be a minority one, but I'm surprised, genuinely…

The issue is that WebEx might just work for you, but if there is one person for whom it doesn't work then that is the limiting factor. What people struggle to understand is that Zoom made it easy accross ALL operating systems. While Webex might "just work" on a subset of Windows and Mac hosts. I use Linux as my day to day OS and WebEx is a nightmare (which sticks well to the stereotypical enterprise tool from Cisco).

or is the difference that any other tool runs in the browser (which might be old or locked down), while Zoom childishly just gets admin-privilege to turn the tables in its favour?

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#259

Post by pfranz »

walrus01 wrote: post #209
pfranz wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you advocating for? Either way business will continue; lock down security and people (and productivity) will suffer but still continue, ignore security and business will still happen. Different business will fail in each scenario, but the world won't end. Heck, force people to jump through hoops to support insecure software and work still gets done: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22804208 I hope Zoom g…

I am specifically advocating that organizations with important data to protect take a more cautious and measured approach to installing software on their workstation computers. If the very slight productivity hit from having slightly-more-blocky video chat in a slightly-more-awkward GUI client (google hangouts meet for gsuite, for instance, or Teams) is the make-or-break line between a company's continuing success, o…

That sounds like an appropriate response. I do think the BYOD push over the past 10+ years has improved Enterprise experience for end users and I expect things like Zoom and the current push for work-from-home does the same for working remotely.

I hope both Zoom improves their practices and other enterprise tools step up their game, too. It's been a joke that the first 15m of a meeting is spent getting things working for decades now.

Zoom seems to have spent time in some areas almost completely ignored by most others: Linux, more than a handful of simultaneous users, and poor connections (I feel like Zoom has other benefits, but these are egregiously bad with competitors). At my previous job it wasn't just slightly-more-blocky video chat in a slightly-more-awkward GUI client. We used our own equipment (and mostly used Linux in-house) and were spread all over the world (some countries had poor connectivity). We also had our company meetings via Zoom. We often tried other software and didn't bless any one of them, but I don't think any other single software would work. Without Zoom I imagine we'd do most meetings via voice--likely over POTS.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#260

Post by vbezhenar »

uneekname wrote: post #190
downerending wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I feel much advantaged when no one can see my face. And in truth, I usually don't want to see anyone else's face either. Aren't there companies that forbid looking at someone for more than five seconds? Well guess what, on a video call, they're staring at you for minutes on end.

> Aren't there companies that forbid looking at someone for more than five seconds? Wait what? Could someone explain to me the reasoning behind a policy like this? Edit: it appears to be a sexual harassment policy, and apparently Netflix has tried it [0] [0] https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/netflix-five-second-s...

What should I look at conversing with another person? I used to look in the eyes or just in the face, I don't understand why is it harassment? Should I look at tits instead, is it less harassment or what? Shall I just close my eyes? West culture is weird.
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