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Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

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Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#251

Post by ocdtrekkie »

Zelizz wrote: post #237
dkns wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reckon Microsoft can be even worse considering how much data they gather about you through telemetry built in Windows. Imagine if you're web dev using windows and edge along with vscode. Oof.

I work on Windows (speaking informally here, these are my own opinions and not those of my employer, etc.) We care a lot about GDPR and privacy, and there's been a big top-down push to reduce the amount of telemetry collected, including giving good justifications for anything we want to keep collecting. We have to make sure all the data is kept in GDPR-compliant systems that can handle the deletion and security polic…

I think the issue that people still have with Microsoft's telemetry approach, is that I'm generally happy to forward error messages or logs or whatever, but I don't like the agency to not do that taken away from me. I get that default-enabled and non-disableable telemetry provides better statistics, but that can't be worth the cost of what Microsoft did, which was take all of the goodwill they'd recently built up and light it on fire.

As you aren't management, I get that you can't really do much to impact that. But I think the idea that "seeing the success rate of our feature" can't possibly be worth the risks and harm to goodwill and trust that Microsoft's telemetry approach took.

Side note "Something happened" as an error message when trying to upgrade Windows 10 is my favorite go-to example of bad error messages. It didn't even give you the paradoxical 0x80000000 error code that you had to use a search engine to figure out what meant. It was just a notice that something went wrong.

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#252

Post by r00fus »

Hypx wrote: post #246
AaronFriel wrote: post #191

This is just like when Google Maps was blocked on Windows Phone[1] and when they decided to block YouTube as well[2]. Microsoft now finds themselves in the same position their competitors found themselves in the IE6 era. Google is behaving, if anything, worse, and using its massive reach and user base to stifle competition. This is deeply disappointing, and all the more reason Microsoft never should have adopted Chro…

Sadly, I tried Firefox for a while, and it's big enough of a downgrade compared to Chrome that I went back. A hard fork of Chromium specifically for Edge might not be the worse thing ever. Having two independently maintained versions of that engine might be enough to force more standardization than in a Chrome-only world.

When was this? Recently it's great for me - better than Chrome - with the exception that some extensions are Chrome-specific (meaning you have to repackage them for FF).

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#253

Post by yellowapple »

gentleman11 wrote: post #228
AaronFriel wrote: post #191

This is just like when Google Maps was blocked on Windows Phone[1] and when they decided to block YouTube as well[2]. Microsoft now finds themselves in the same position their competitors found themselves in the IE6 era. Google is behaving, if anything, worse, and using its massive reach and user base to stifle competition. This is deeply disappointing, and all the more reason Microsoft never should have adopted Chro…

Microsoft literally uses the same strategy against Firefox users in windows. They all play this sketchy game

And Google, too, uses the same strategy against Firefox users on Google-owned sites.

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#254

Post by Shorel »

flipchart wrote: post #233
fergie wrote: post #38

PSA: if you are not already using it, and you care about the future of humanity, then give Firefox a(nother) go. Its actually quite good these days.

My major issue switching to FF is still the lack of a Chrome-style translate function. I live in a country where I don't speak the language, so rely heavily on translating. Copy/pasting into Google translate is too slow for general browsing, and being able to switch between translated and un-translated near instantly means that I can still navigate the site when inevitably the translation breaks the JS navigation. Sw…

This is what I use in Firefox:

https://about.imtranslator.net/tutorials/presentations/imtra...

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#255

Post by mr_toad »

amelius wrote: post #28
thaumasiotes wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty interesting article. > "Google Chrome ads started appearing next to Firefox search terms. Gmail & [Google] Docs started to experience selective performance issues and bugs on Firefox. Demo sites would falsely block Firefox as 'incompatible'," he said. > "All of this is stuff you're allowed to do to compete, of course. But we were still a search partner, so we'd say 'hey what gives?' And every time, they'd say,…

> Google Chrome ads started appearing next to Firefox search terms Why don't webdevs fight back and put "best viewed on Firefox" pop-ups on their pages (whenever the user is using Chrome).

> Why don't webdevs fight back

Seems to be fairly common to see a “works on Chrome, my job is done” attitude. Especially with SPAs.

I worry that we’re going to see another generation of crappy line of business apps that only work (badly) in one browser because of this attitude.

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#256

Post by wayneftw »

wayneftw wrote: post #217
AaronFriel wrote: post #191

This is just like when Google Maps was blocked on Windows Phone[1] and when they decided to block YouTube as well[2]. Microsoft now finds themselves in the same position their competitors found themselves in the IE6 era. Google is behaving, if anything, worse, and using its massive reach and user base to stifle competition. This is deeply disappointing, and all the more reason Microsoft never should have adopted Chro…

This strategy would have been worse for Microsoft and furthermore it would have been ineffective at achieving your own desire. Old Edge was already getting the same treatment from web developers as Firefox. If they picked up Gecko they might as well have just stayed with old Edge for even less effort.

No rebuttal?

I take it as a sign that I’m 100% correct and that my detractors just don’t have a decent counter argument...

Thanks for the confirmation!

Interesting how, yet again in a conversation about an article that didn't even mention Firefox, an off-topic, Firefox-positive comment rose very quickly to the top of this large thread soon after it appeared isn’t it? I wonder how that happens when they have so few users and so little support from the web dev community at large? Hmmm... I guess when you got that free Google money to burn, you spend it desperately trying to stay relevant.

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#257

Post by r00fus »

andrewmutz wrote: post #98
callmeal wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The "oops" have begun... Try running gmail in firefox. It's abysmal. A single click takes a few seconds to open email. This is malice, not incompetence. And I'm not even going to get into the whole endless captcha on firefox 'feature'.

"Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by malice" -Hacker News

Gray's law applies: "sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice"

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#258

Post by hnick »

adonese wrote: post #82
callmeal wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The "oops" have begun... Try running gmail in firefox. It's abysmal. A single click takes a few seconds to open email. This is malice, not incompetence. And I'm not even going to get into the whole endless captcha on firefox 'feature'.

I have been using gmail for quite long time. It is getting ridiculously terrible these days (in the past couple of years I guess!) My old laptop fans go crazy when I launch chrome. It’s too much heavy for a mail client. It’s remarkable how we suck at writing software in the past years.

> It’s remarkable how we suck at writing software in the past years.

You might enjoy this talk if you haven't seen it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19945452

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#260

Post by ineedasername »

Supermancho wrote: post #152
ineedasername wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about: "Sufficient levels of stupidity are indistinguishable from malice"

Indifference is not stupidity. "My feature is done. I don't care if or how it hurts the user."

I think indifference is a perfectly good substitute here as well: "Sufficient levels of indifference are indistinguishable from malice".

Yep, that works too.

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