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A Sad Day for Rust

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Re: A Sad Day for Rust

#251

Post by [deleted] »

burlesona wrote: post #246
coleifer wrote: post #63

I am disgusted by the cultural phenomenon of making sarcastic call-out comments on twitter/etc., with an eye towards building up enough community outrage to force an issue. There are people who forget that open-source does not entitle you to anything (read the fucking license). Maintainers of large projects are not even allowed to have a bad day, to make a brusque comment, or to disagree with a majority -- without so…

I agree. I think this is an extension of the general social media mob culture that we have. I see it as one of the major problems of our day, because most people in most situations just bow to the mob, which just makes it worse. I don’t know how we solve that, either.

[deleted]

Re: A Sad Day for Rust

#252

Post by zelly »

That's okay, Rust should never be used for web anyway.

I don't like the idea of Rust, C, C++, or Assembly for directly web-facing services. Any non-GC language should be a non-starter. There are literally (uncountably?) infinite ways you can have memory errors in a native program. The consequences of any of these can be devastating because absolutely anyone can access your endpoint. Notice the asymmetry: One small, unnoticeable error can lead to devastation. Like running across of a field of sparse landmines, eventually you will get destroyed.

Re: A Sad Day for Rust

#253

Post by toyg »

endothrowho333 wrote: post #21

> “Why Reddit is like this” is a whole other essay; I think it’s built into reddit’s structure itself. Classic Eternal September. Around 60k subscribers, the cultural identity starts degrading, as the amount of "old guard" is outmatched by "new blood." Therefore, the old "monkey see, monkey do" phenomenon, where new users would slowly mimic the culture of the prevailing older users to "fit in," is replaced with new u…

Person posting on online forum says people posting on online forums have social problems.

If that statement is true, you (and me, and everyone else here) have those same issues, surely?

Re: A Sad Day for Rust

#254

Post by Traster »

withoutboats wrote: post #89

This situation is the sad and absurd result of two processes going on in the Rust community. The first is that the Rust community on Reddit is in a feedback loop of groupthink and outrage, making it into a powerful vector for harassment. The maintainer of the actix project had a particularly terrible experience of escalating harassment from the users of this subreddit, and its extremely sad. This has caused a lot of…

That article from Shnatsel is really stunning, just everything about is negative and snarky- to a comical point. His avatar is a cartoon pony doing a facepalm! I find it kind of funny that the author of this has singled out reddit for criticism when seemingly prominent members of the Rust community are perfectly willing to be so openly toxic.

Re: A Sad Day for Rust

#255

Post by zozbot234 »

lostmyoldone wrote: post #233
mileycyrusXOXO wrote: post #12

I understand maintaining open source is a lot of work and why someone might want to call it a day - but this is probably the least professional way someone could do it. People depend on this software. It is inconsiderate to just move it to private instead of taking the time to hand it off to someone else. I'm 80% through building an API using actix-web. Time to reassess whether or not I should start over - wonder wha…

You don't get to invoke professionalism, or lack thereof in regards to some individuals work they've made available for free. Open source gives you access to source code to do with as you please. Storing your own copy is a good idea if it's something critical to your endeavors. The possibility of having to maintain anything of that nature yourself is always a risk. Expecting, demanding, or begging for anything except…

> You don't get to invoke professionalism, or lack thereof in regards to some individuals work they've made available for free.

Plenty of people do exactly that: they point to work that they've made available for free on their GitHub as proof that they have the required skills and attitudes for professional work. The former Actix-web maintainer also used to do this, via their LinkedIn page. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Re: A Sad Day for Rust

#256

Post by burlesona »

Grue3 wrote: post #242

I remember when people were claiming Common Lisp community is toxic, but I find that it is the languages which tend to focus on "building community" with Community Managers and Codes of Conduct that end up becoming truly toxic cesspools in the end. See also node.js. The focus on community attracts people who aren't interested in programming, but rather those who want a playground for gaining clout and trolling. You n…

That’s an interesting point of view. I don’t know if it’s true, but if it were true I wonder what the reason might be.

Perhaps the communities that don’t “do community building” don’t need to because they already have a healthy community?

Perhaps the projects that do community building are starting from an unhealthy place and fighting an uphill battle?

Or perhaps some percentage of the “community builders” are the ones who like to rage/shame anyone who, even unintentionally, causes any offense? Which naturally escalates the conflict.

Which way does causation run?

Re: A Sad Day for Rust

#257

Post by ncallaway »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #186
lallysingh wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the maintainer responsible for that? They're just another dev who wrote something that became popular. It's almost like watching lottery winners having their lives ruined.

> Why is the maintainer responsible for that? It just seems to me that there's a give-and-take to being the maintainer of a popular open source project. You get help on the project in the form of people contributing patches, right? Doesn't simple human curtesy and a modicum of wisdom suggest that you should explain your rationale in accepting or rejecting them, to manage expectations, so that it doesn't end up like t…

> It just seems to me that there's a give-and-take to being the maintainer of a popular open source project.

Sounds like a whole lotta give to me...

Re: A Sad Day for Rust

#259

Post by anon284271 »

I don't know what a single thing in this post is referring to, so I'd just like to point out the surreal nature of reading someone very passionate about a bunch of words you've never heard of.

Re: A Sad Day for Rust

#260

Post by deng »

unethical_ban wrote: post #221
deng wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you can criticize, but people are continuously demanding things, like "he should have labeled it as a toy project", "he should have given reasons why he didn't accept the patch", etc. And Drew is very right to say: No, he didn't have to do any of that.

You know, there is a lot of "He isn't required" but I will say there are reasonable expectations that people have when a project gets to a certain level of exposure/downloads/etc. and while someone should not be "cancelled" or tarred and feathered for not accepting a merge request, if your project is a leader in its niche (Rust web frameworks) you should do better. You publish your code to Github, you're part of a co…

> You publish your code to Github, you're part of a community.

Hell no. It that were the case, I'd never publish anything.

> You make it open and allow for contributions and see people are using it, you should be clear about your level of give-a-shit.

It is YOUR responsibility to see that for yourself by watching how the project is actually maintained.

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