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Education and Men without Work

nationalaffairs.com

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Re: Education and Men without Work

#251

Post by remarkEon »

belorn wrote: post #208
tathougies wrote: post #5

The article is long on detail and short on suggestions (which is understandable). However, the suggestions it does make are not obviously going to work. The men illustrated in the article do not seem incapable of work, but rather disinterested. Vocational training isn't going to fix the fact that the government benefits the article cited allows the men to stay at home playing video games all day. Most people (but esp…

"Most people (but especially men, given the propensity of the male psyche to become dependent on dopamine) would rather take the short term thrill of continuous dopamine" Please don't spread misinformation. Take an study like Sex differences in addiction ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5286725/ ). If anything the propensity of the female psyche is more likely to become dependent on dopamine, but its an…

Right, but as you said this

>men choosing to play video games

is just an extension of this

>status competition among men

and this

>With women reaching equality in the work force it seems that men are also moving closer to equality in free time, especially at younger ages.

is not necessarily an axiomatic good because of the above mentioned points.

Re: Education and Men without Work

#252

Post by caconym_ »

allovernow wrote: post #102
jfengel wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem, I think, is that the article seems to believe that the solution is "return to the 1950s". The world has changed. The relationships between men and women have changed. The relationship of the economy to individuals has changed. The article seems predicated on the notion that this number (male participation in the labor force) is the metric that matters, rather than anything about their mental health -- ha…

>The relationships between men and women have changed. The relationship of the economy to individuals has changed. >Well, if only women would return home, there would be more lucrative jobs for men, and more need for the women to be taken care of by a man". That ship has sailed Worth noting that the current changes are explicitly counter to traditional roles which have existed for thousands of years. Yes, appeal sole…

You say women have been shamed into pursuing careers, but I don't see the evidence for that as the root cause of their increasing participation in the career-age workforce, nor do I think it's obvious that this expanded workforce is the cause of the general modern necessity for a dual household income. Why not the opposite? That the increasing costs of housing, goods, and services, due to XX factors, are making single-income multi-person households infeasible?

Seriously, what percentage of people in households that are dual-income by necessity are happy with their situation?

Re: Education and Men without Work

#253

Post by scarmig »

bluntfang wrote: post #180
HeroOfAges wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I would agree that this is an unpopular opinion, it's one I've come to terms with myself as I've grown older. There's a book I read that's popular in men's rights advocate circles called "The Myth of Male Power" that explores the idea of males being the "disposable" sex. Unfortunately, we live in a time where you're branded a misogynist for even mentioning the possibility that men face some serious disadvantage…

>we live in a time where you're branded a misogynist for even mentioning the possibility that men face some serious disadvantages in modern American society. no we don't

Feel free to restate it as "you're branded a misogynist for not conceding from the get go that women experience an order of magnitude more suffering than men and need more rectification of gender injustice than men do."

Re: Education and Men without Work

#254

Post by Mirioron »

exhilaration wrote: post #239
Mirioron wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people will care until the issue has become large enough that it will start impacting others in society indirectly. Eg not enough tax revenue being generated or not enough men willing to fight in a war.

In a few decades we'll have robots to fight our wars.

I find this very unlikely. Maybe most of the shock and awe part will be done by robots, but I doubt that there won't be boots on the ground. Nor do I think that we will do away with sailors on destroyers.

Re: Education and Men without Work

#255

Post by leetcrew »

frockington1 wrote: post #92
downerending wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the kind of safety net they're talking about, but a lot of the young are supported at a livable level by their parents. (source: am doing this) I'd argue that this isn't inherently bad, but ultimately this can amount to "eating one's seed corn". In the long run, twenty-somethings that do this risk a financially more perilous life and a lower chance of being able to give their kids a good start in life.

Is there anything you have done that has improved motivation of your kids to get out of the house? I'm asking as a mid-twenty year old who has a few friends that haven't had a real job in years and wants to help. The main issue I've run into is that they just don;t care they are burdening their parents

I have friends like this too. you know them better than I of course, but I doubt that your friends don't care at all about burdening their parents. imo, guilt is just not a very effective motivator for someone to get their life together. it tends to make them feel bad and get even more set in their ways. the only way I've ever seen this work out is after some spark that gives the person an intrinsic desire to improve their own life (and the belief than they can).

as for what you can do for your friends, there's probably not much. the best you can do is to live well yourself and be a good example for them. also, be careful. there is some truth to the saying, "you become the average of your five best friends." if you get too involved in their day-to-day, you will experience friction when it comes to accomplishing your own goals.

Re: Education and Men without Work

#256

Post by non-entity »

dx87 wrote: post #8

It's interesting to see the contrast in discussion with other posts that talk about how we need to get rid of useless jobs. Those posts normally talk about how we need to make it so it's possible to just live off government benefits instead of spending our lives working, meanwhile this submission calls it a national crisis when men are leaving the workforce and choosing to live off of government benefits. I don't thi…

I'm not going to go into detail because it will inevitably lead to a pointless flame war, but HN seems to flip flop politically between threads that deal with primary economic issues and threads that have more of a social focus

Re: Education and Men without Work

#257

Post by bostonvaulter2 »

L-four wrote: post #79
thephyber wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “ Fixing" this problem by curtailing the benefits... Another way to address a partial fix is to decriminalize getting a job after previously being on disability. Currently that is used as evidence that there was no previous disability and can lead to prosecution for fraud and attempts to claw back those previous benefits.

It's even worse it works both ways. Trying to get a job can stop your benefits and if the job doesn't work out you'll have a hard time getting your benefits back. Better to not try.

Wow those are absolutely terrible incentives that we've setup. I didn't realize that it was so bad.

Re: Education and Men without Work

#258

Post by snickerbockers »

TomMckenny wrote: post #212

Benefits are much more generous and much easier to get in countries with much higher worker participation. And they have the same video games in other countries too. And marriage does not cause entry in the workforce, participation in the workforce is what makes marriage partners more interested. Reduction in benefits has not and is no increasing work participation. There was not spike in worker participation in the…

>And marriage does not cause entry in the workforce, participation in the workforce is what makes marriage partners more interested.

The key phrase being "more interested". You aren't guaranteed a wife just because you have a career. Participation in the workforce does not cause marriage to happen.

Re: Education and Men without Work

#260

Post by bostonvaulter2 »

I can't help but think that we need a serious national discussion about this. I feel that this issue is just going to get worse, because there simply aren't enough well paying jobs to go around, especially on the lower end of the skills market (remember that only ~1/3 of the US population graduated from college).

In my opinion, this is why we need a president that understands and deeply cares about this problem. This is why I am fully supporting Andrew Yang in his presidential bid. He understands the state we're in and has accepted the reality that all these jobs are not coming back and we need to start working on solutions now. But please don't take my word for it and instead look into him yourself, his Iowa Press interview is a great start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DahyKQccudQ

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