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How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

markosaric.com

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Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#251

Post by CamperBob2 »

Avamander wrote: post #166
elbrian wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I saw many flaws and bugs. Can you tell us about (or link us to) some of the many bugs you found in Firefox?

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594876 - 9 years old https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210727 - 4 years old https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1010527 - 6 years old Not to mention the weird random full-blown crashes that occur when I try to use it that I can't reproduce, no point in opening an issue for those.

It's obvious that most of those random crashes are caused by memory starvation. They should have all the telemetry they need to understand and fix it, if only by popping up an error message saying 'Not enough memory to render this page' or even Safari's maddening version of the same message ('A problem occurred with this web page so it was reloaded.')

The only explanation is that they don't give a crap. Very frustrating.

Reading the bug thread cited above, it may even be a case of, "I was able to get Chrome to crash under similar circumstances, therefore it is conforming behavior. WONTFIX."

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#252

Post by JohnFen »

Kaiyou wrote: post #139
brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

What's the point of switching to DDG, though? Under the hood it's just a combination of Google and Bing, isn't it?

DDG aggregates from a large list of search engines, but primarily Bing. I don't think it uses Google at all.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#253

Post by frabcus »

v7p1Qbt1im wrote: post #203
Enginerrrd wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither does google anymore though. Their search quality has gone hill dramatically in the last 4-5 years. It basically correlates with wikipedia no longer being the first result of most searches; it was largely replaced with commercialized garbage. Getting the highest quality, unbiased information you asked for isn't really their first priority anymore and it shows. I tried DDG when it first came out and found it un…

The reason Google, or search engines in general, seem to be getting worse in the eyes of some users, is not the result of the functioning of the engine necessarily, but rather of the content of the web itself. The whole web is organized and optimized more and more for clicks and watch time. It would only make sense that the results seem to be correspondingly worse.

There's no such thing as "the whole web" - it is simply sites with the most money gaming Google better, and Google being happy for that to happen.

There's a lot else on the web, it just isn't surfaced by Google as much as in the search engine's early years.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#254

Post by RandallBrown »

gkolli wrote: post #142

Sorry for the dumb question, but: What does Google gain with AMP? How does it make money with it?

Google makes money by people browsing the Internet. If they can make browsing easier/better/faster, they will do it.

This is why they built Chrome and Android too.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#255

Post by chadlavi »

yread wrote: post #177
brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

I would say also STOP using Google Analytics, Google CDNs, Google fonts, Youtube for hosting your content and all the spying 3rd party services. It's perfectly doable to have a commercial website without them.

And if you _do_ want to use a google font, just download it from google and serve it yourself.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#256

Post by reificator »

brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

> FF dev tools are awesome.

I switched back about a year or so ago. There are some nice things in the FF dev tools compared to Chrome, but on the whole, even a year later I still find myself opening Chrome to do something specific here and there in dev tools.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#257

Post by RandallBrown »

I'm more likely to click AMP links in search results than non-AMP links. The reason for this is the pre-loading that Google does for them. The links load almost instantly, where some non-amp link might take up to 20 seconds to finally load enough where I can start scrolling past the ads.

The Facebook instant links (or whatever they're called) have much the same effect on me. I'll usually open those if the headline even makes me a little curious.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#258

Post by tracker1 »

tracker1 wrote: post #235
idoubtit wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stop using chrome. Honestly, wtf?! Firefox is awesome. I do not use Chrome, but I don't think Firefox is awesome. While I use FF, partly for moral reasons, my experience is average and I saw many flaws and bugs. I prefer the features of Vivaldi, which is based on Chromium, but does not phone home to Google. > STOP USING google SEARCH! While my default search engine is Duck Duck Go, I don't recommend it to friends a…

I forced myself to use DDG for about 3 months as my main search engine... nearly 2/3 of the time when searching for technical queries I'd have to fall back to Google... I just switched back... I may give Bing a similar try though, I really like the UI tweaks the Chromium based Edge has done.

Aside.. for anything political in nature, the DDG results were much better in general.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#259

Post by usr1106 »

Avamander wrote: post #166
elbrian wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I saw many flaws and bugs. Can you tell us about (or link us to) some of the many bugs you found in Firefox?

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594876 - 9 years old https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210727 - 4 years old https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1010527 - 6 years old Not to mention the weird random full-blown crashes that occur when I try to use it that I can't reproduce, no point in opening an issue for those.

> Not to mention the weird random full-blown crashes that occur when I try to use it that I can't reproduce, no point in opening an issue for those

What platform are you using? I have used FF exclusively for 10+ years on Linux. Ubuntu and OpenSUSE every day. Nouveau and i915 every day. If I said I get 3 crashes per year in the last 3-5 years that would probably be exaggerating.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#260

Post by yellowarchangel »

gkolli wrote: post #142

Sorry for the dumb question, but: What does Google gain with AMP? How does it make money with it?

Google is trying to monopolize the internet, and they also sell data / ads. So inherently "spending more time in google ecosystem" leads to inherent value.
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