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Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

theguardian.com

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Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#251

Post by lzol »

Symbiote wrote: post #34

> Water bottles must also be clear, so school officials can see the color of the liquid inside. Given the huge range of drinks available in the USA, especially soft drinks, I'm curious to know what colour isn't acceptable.

I think it's mostly for chew spit. Depending on where you're at, it's still not uncommon for kids to be using chewing tobacco or snus during school hours. If you were sly with a colored bottle, you could spit all day and never get caught. I'm not saying this is a great reason, but this isn't totally illogical.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#252

Post by nguoi »

noonespecial wrote: post #224
nguoi wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at how that same argument fails to apply to suicide statistics being reduced by removing access to guns or falls from bridges. You're trying to apply a logical train of thought to an inherently illogical act of homicide. But even if you can apply that, it doesn't work. The gun and ammo you can fit in a textbook is smaller than what can fit in a backpack. Backpacks are good at carrying things, that's why we - and…

There are an unlimited number of things that risk dead children. Chewing gum, shoelaces, bicycles, model rocketry, shop class, video game marathons, crosswalks... How sure do we have to be to ban them all? There is in my opinion a very clear danger associated with setting up draconian surveillance states borne out by history. How sure do we have to be before we ban those?

We do ban lots of things. They're children.

>There is in my opinion a very clear danger associated with setting up draconian surveillance states borne out by history.

In my experience, if everything that was compared to 1984 was actually like 1984, we'd be at war with Eastasia.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#253

Post by logfromblammo »

vharuck wrote: post #232
logfromblammo wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that art is an effective counter to nihilism, and I do enjoy the irony of liking Dadaist and Surrealist art. When nothing you do matters, everything you choose to do anyway is art. So try not to make ugly art.

> When nothing you do matters, everything you choose to do anyway is art. So try not to make ugly art. Is that a quote from someone else? I love it and want to properly attribute it when sharing.

No. That's me. Been working on it for a while to make it more quoteworthy. It's my "Well, actually, not all nihilists..." quote.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#254

Post by rtkwe »

systemtest wrote: post #46
mattlondon wrote: post #4

Unpopular opinion: make private gun ownership illegal instead of forcing kids to be monitored to make sure they're not carrying

Or just fix the underlaying issue. Switzerland has 2 million guns on 8 million citizens. Yet no school shootings. Why don't they have school shootings and can we apply the Swiss system to the United States?

I mean if we're talking about Switzerland we have to talk about how their gun laws would be considered extremely draconian and unconstitutional in the US. [see 0] For starters all guns and ammunition purchases have what are essentially background checks, and it's much easier to lose the right to purchase, carry permits are basically non-existent and most transit is explicitly only to and from shooting ranges or hunting. Just saying there's lots of guns in Switzerland so guns aren't the real problem is very disingenuous and ignores the fact that as they've continued to restrict gun ownership to align with broader EU rules gun violence (including suicides) have dropped.

[0] https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-o...

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#255

Post by ptah »

sschueller wrote: post #76
ptah wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not as easy to get guns in switzerland as in the US

It's not that hard either (over 18, don't have any violent crime history or mental issues (self harm) and Swiss citizen (exceptions exist)) however not every type of gun or knife is legal. Magazines for guns over 20 rounds are not legal and neither are rifle magazines with more than 10 rounds. Fully automatic guns are not permitted unless it was received during military service. Butterfly knifes and throwing knifes a…

what is school going age in switzerland

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#256

Post by TurkishPoptart »

tyingq wrote: post #248
markus92 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still blocking, not actively monitoring. Probably because it runs all network traffic through their VPN.

Software like Forcepoint/Websense logs blocked attempts by default and can be configured to log all traffic. I don't believe there's a reliable source on what companies do. The Levandowski incident at Google revealed that they had VERY extensive logs. They appear not to look at them routinely, but the logs are there when needed.

Was that the IP incident between Google and Uber? can you say more about the evidence here or post a source? just curious.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#257

Post by maze-le »

Mirioron wrote: post #98
krilly wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which bit of this are you upset with specifically? Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. The clear backpacks are silly I'll admit, and also pointless. I agree that kids getting conditioned to be okay with surveillance is bad, but this is all coming from the private sector right now. In China, you now have to submit your face to be scanned…

I'm most upset by internet monitoring. If I had had access to school devices and it had monitoring then I wouldn't trust the school with anything, because they wouldn't trust me with anything. Clear backpacks is such an absurd thing that I still find it difficult to believe that adult human beings came up with such an idea in the name of security. It's something I'd only ever expect to encounter in a novel about a dy…

Security Theater at its finest. If something happens they can always claim: "Look -- we did something -- it was utterly stupid and had no effect at all, but we did it, what else could we do?!?!"

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#258

Post by nkrisc »

hollerith wrote: post #177
shadowgovt wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, since you bring it up, there's some evidence that the abstinence-until-21 system the US uses for alcohol does it no favors. It means that instead of being able to learn responsible drinking at home or while younger, America's youth may legally start drinking in college and sort of make up a responsible drinking culture as they go along.

You mention drinking at home. The law bans the purchase of alcohol by children, but does it ban parents giving alcohol to their children? I dont think so.

Doesn't even have to be in the home. In Wisconsin you can drink under 21 at a restaurant if you're accompanied by a legal guardian, parent, or spouse who is 21 or older.

As I recall, many divey bars would settle for "sibling." As a teenager in Illinois I heard tale of a mythical land to the North where we could drink in restaurants with our parents.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/125/I/07/...

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#259

Post by rtkwe »

sschueller wrote: post #76
ptah wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not as easy to get guns in switzerland as in the US

It's not that hard either (over 18, don't have any violent crime history or mental issues (self harm) and Swiss citizen (exceptions exist)) however not every type of gun or knife is legal. Magazines for guns over 20 rounds are not legal and neither are rifle magazines with more than 10 rounds. Fully automatic guns are not permitted unless it was received during military service. Butterfly knifes and throwing knifes a…

Also ammo purchases have similar background check style requirements so it's difficult to bypass the systems unlike the US. It's always weird when people bring up Switzerland like it disproves the push for tighter gun laws, all it really shows is that tight gun laws work and you don't have to completely ban guns. [0]

[0] They do have a high rate of suicide by guns than the rest of Europe though and that number has dropped as, surprise surprise, gun laws have been tightened.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#260

Post by im_with_stupid »

oliveshell wrote: post #93
im_with_stupid wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have people teaching nihilism. This is the result of nihilism. If you want to eliminate this problem, then eliminate nihilism. The solution to keep people from killing should focus on teaching others that life is not meaningless or worthless. Also, teaching kids humility wouldn't hurt either. Edit: Perhaps this should be obvious, but teaching about nihilism is not teaching nihilism. People teach nihilism more, if…

[Citation Needed]

You need a citation to believe that "the rejection of all religious and moral principles" would incentivize people to make their own "screw the system" morals? Really?
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