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The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

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Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#251

Post by BeetleB »

diminoten wrote: post #245
BeetleB wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a guaranteed way to be disturbed again in an hour or two.

Async doesn't mean "never", you do need to respond to your colleagues eventually.

If they need a response within an hour, then they need to indicate that (and ideally why) in their initial contact.

If they expected a response within an hour and didn't get it, they can call me or physically come to me.

I've told two of my bosses while being interviewed: Assume I'll check email only 3 times a day. Is that workable?

No one says "No" (even though it may not be workable).

One of my bosses actually suggested to me that I should have "office hours" and be available in those hours, and simply not respond all other hours.

It all depends on the need of the job. And most engineering/SW jobs do not need you to "be available to respond within an hour" for any request.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#252

Post by greggman2 »

JDiculous wrote: post #215
greggman2 wrote: post #68

Since remote work seems to be the topic this article on async communication spawned I wanted to throw this out there for reactions. First off let me acknowledge that some people prefer remote work and also say up front I do not. I recent YouAreNotSoSmart podcast interviewed Laurie Santos from Yale and if I understood her research basically claims we often both individually and as a society choose things we think will…

I feel like someone always chimes in to say this, but the underlying assumption here is that a significant portion of one's social fulfillment should come from their office workers, which I think is ludicrous. Let's be real here, what percentage of people - especially engineers - really find that their social needs are being satisfied through their office jobs? After you or your co-worker leaves their job, how many e…

Interesting. I feel the exact opposite. Many of my x-coworkers are life long friends. I will attend the wedding of one that's been a friend for 25 years and other x-coworker friends will likely be there.

It seems waste to spend so much time with co-workers and not be friends. It also seems a waste to spend so much time "working" and not have it be fun and pleasant and social.

But, thinking about it more maybe I was spoiled making video games. It was something I wanted to do, my co-workers wanted to do it to, we did it together sharing the struggles and feeling proud of our product. I'm guessing there are plenty of jobs that if I had to do I'd just want to put in the time as quick as possible and then get back to something I enjoy.

I have a close friend that upon graduation wanted to make video games. He applied, was rejected, ended up in finance, made more money but at least for him it's clear his job is just something he does to get paid.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#253

Post by atomwaffel »

tyfon wrote: post #173
atomwaffel wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I work in Norway and while I can work remotely on request, my inquiry about doing so regularly one day a week was met with “what if shit hits the fan and we need you here urgently” from my manager (my house is a ten minute walk from the office) and “if we allow one person to work remotely, everyone will want to” from HR.

You should tell HR that would be great, one seat at the office costs a lot. They have a huge savings potential :)

Yes, but think of all the meetings you can’t have if people aren’t at the office!

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#254

Post by Xelbair »

justbaker wrote: post #208
malvosenior wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can they not be trusted and measured? I trust my employees and encourage them to be creative and autonomous. I also expect people to ship their progress regularly and work in strategic alignment as helped by the direction I provide in our regular meeting cadence. It's a weak manager that's constantly concerned about their reports not being productive. Nothing in the world is easier to spot than someone who doesn'…

Does the employee deliver? That should be a yes/no answer. Micromanging employees minutes is an ineffective distraction to reaching that goal of delivery. The more autonomous each is while still moving in the direction of the common goal of the team, the more trusted they can be.

>> Micromanging employees minutes is an ineffective distraction to reaching that goal of delivery.

i would say that it is a very quick way for employee to reach towards a new company.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#255

Post by Xelbair »

umvi wrote: post #190
VonGuard wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of an old adage about tech work and other skilled labors: If you give me a task that takes a normal perosn 8 hours, and I finish it in 30 minutes, you're paying me for the skill, knowledge and experience that allows me to do it in 30 minutes. I do not owe you another 7.5 hours of work. I owe you the job being done, not the hours it should take to do it.

> I do not owe you another 7.5 hours of work. Only if you are a contractor and you've fulfilled your contract. If you are a salaried employee I expect you to keep your hopper of tasks full so you aren't sitting around idle 95% of the day waiting for me to feed you 30 minute taskers

Great way to turn that 30 minute task into 8 hour task.

If employee is getting extra works as a reward for being efficient guess what will happen.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#256

Post by Xelbair »

umvi wrote: post #212
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're not trusting the salaried employee to use their judgement on how best to utilize their time, but instead assuming they instead use their skill to be a butt in a seat and working for at least 40 hours? What's special about the salary then? It's just easier than an hourly system?

You seem to be presenting confused ideas. Here's what I believe: If I pay you a salary, I want (roughly) 40 hours per week of productive work at your current skill level. Note: I consider sitting around thinking about things relevant to the product or company to be productive work. If you believe your level of output deserves higher compensation than you are receiving, come talk to me or find a company that will pay…

So basically let me get summarise this:

- you have an employee that works faster than others, in the same pay grade.

- You are annoyed that he or she has empty queue of work

- You expect employees to look for tasks on their own when they are done

so either that employee:

- has no creative control over the work he or she is doing and cannot move forwards on their own.

- is severely underpaid and undervalued

- is under bad management that cannot fill their work queue fast enough

All of that will lead into them doing tasks at the same speed as other ones - you just turned a good, valuable and fast employee into another drone.. or worse - they'll go work for competition, and you'll have to both suffer the loss of a good trained employee and a cost of hiring someone else.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#257

Post by gherkinnn »

gm wrote: post #92

"No expectation of immediate reply"? HA! I SO wish. Slack kills any async expectation. Specially if you install it on your cellphone. Then you're on the clock 24/7. I guess the article also assumes different time zones when working remotely? I filed the article under the "rubbish bin". I've worked remotely for several years, and maybe I live in a different planet, because "async" and remote work do NOT go hand in han…

Why would you install Slack on your Phone?

Your phone is with you at all times. Work should not be.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#258

Post by watwut »

malvosenior wrote: post #228
watwut wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like I don't want employer to flip it into "we need 12 hours worth of work" or hold unrealistic deadline over mu throat, I will ask for new task if original estimate was too short. I did actually signed contract that actually specifies fI'll time - 40 hours.

That's not how creative work works though. Do you ever think about your code at night or the weekend? Mental work is basically always on and can't be judged by the amount of time at the keyboard implementing it. The whole concept of tasks per hour doesn't map well to software development.

The actual example was "I was done in 0.5 hour, I dont owe you another 7.5 hours of work". Unless you signed contract that is for specified amount of work, you do.

I you wanna count weekend thinking into it, is a different question.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#259

Post by mscasts »

lazyjones wrote: post #24
mscasts wrote: post #3

I work remotely for about 80% of the workweek. I am most effective at home. At work people talk to me and interrupt me quite often. You get interrupted by people walking by etc or just striking up a conversation. At home this obviously never happens for me. The only distraction I have is Slack and my dog that reminds me that it's time for a walk. So I can attest to this.

> At home this obviously never happens for me. Interesting, you never get phone calls, texts, Amazon deliveries etc.?

Rarely. I get some texts from the GF most of the time. Amazon doesn't really exist in my country anyway.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#260

Post by [deleted] »

umvi wrote: post #190
VonGuard wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of an old adage about tech work and other skilled labors: If you give me a task that takes a normal perosn 8 hours, and I finish it in 30 minutes, you're paying me for the skill, knowledge and experience that allows me to do it in 30 minutes. I do not owe you another 7.5 hours of work. I owe you the job being done, not the hours it should take to do it.

> I do not owe you another 7.5 hours of work. Only if you are a contractor and you've fulfilled your contract. If you are a salaried employee I expect you to keep your hopper of tasks full so you aren't sitting around idle 95% of the day waiting for me to feed you 30 minute taskers

[deleted]
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