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Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

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Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#251

Post by antisemiotic »

friendlybus wrote: post #232
antisemiotic wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only explicit difference is the demand to do it immediately. No. The first speaker exaggerates the issue to make a point ("you always"), makes a roundabout reference to societal norms ("it's disgusting") instead of describing what actually annoys them (socks lying on the floor right now) and why (I don't want to see them because I personally find them disgusting, not because Felix failed to meet some outside sta…

>No. The first speaker exaggerates the issue to make a point ("you always"), makes a roundabout reference to societal norms ("it's disgusting") instead of describing what actually annoys them (socks lying on the floor right now) and why (I don't want to see them because I personally find them disgusting, not because Felix failed to meet some outside standard). The only reason the second speaker would say "When I see…

>The only reason the second speaker would say "When I see xyz on the floor" is because she has seen it before and that feeling happens every time. It's not as explicit as "you always", but it still implies a recurring and reliable event.

Hmm yeah, I agree that including that information (but more precisely than "you always") is useful here.

>I am curious that the social trend comes to you as a priority in "it's disgusting", that's not a perspective I would see.

Okay, disgusting socks may not be the best example, because it's pretty clear cut that leaving them in the open is not an acceptable roommate behavior. Can't think of something better right now. Maybe something like stereotypical "leaving the toilet seat up" or "hanging the toilet paper towards the wall or not"? thing is, that framing the discussion in terms of what is acceptable or not is a roundabout and, frankly, manipulative, by elevating personal view to an objective fact.

>You are burying the point by saying observations about feelings are facts.

At the end of the day, feelings are physiological reactions that have already happened. One can discuss whether one side should change, or the other should suck it up next time.

>It could very well be true from the first speaker's observations Felix always does leave his socks out.

That's not a feeling, that's an extrapolation from a mental model, that can't possibly hold in the real world. This leaves Felix no real recourse outside of some pointless back-and-forth.

>I mean that's all well in good in a normal social atmosphere

I think it's the entire point of NVC. No one in their sane mind suggests talking like that to a mugger or thief (though any other kind of talking would be equally ineffective).

>For better or worse one could draw the parallel between that political idea and this book.

Well I didn't notice that parallel before. I don't think the whole idea should be thrown under the bus because of it in any case.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#253

Post by tomashubelbauer »

DEADBEEFC0FFEE wrote: post #240
ngold wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Violent communication is hitting someone to make a point. The name of this is insulting.

Violence isn't always physical.

I agree with this but I still think it is a bad name. Maybe something like non-aggressive communication would fare better?

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#255

Post by CathedralBorrow »

colordrops wrote: post #154
n42 wrote: post #7

I learned this at a company retreat at some point. We all kind of rolled our eyes and went along with the exercise. I now use it to great effect almost daily in both personal and professional relationships. It takes a little care and thought to apply it well. I've found when done effectively, it can unlock difficult conversations and turn even the most hostile interactions into productive conversations. You are demon…

Perhaps a better name would help, such as "Non-hostile communication". There is no such thing as violent communication, and the confusion between speech and violence is precisely what is driving the current pro-censorship wave.

Can speech cause harm?

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#256

Post by iliketocomplain »

i_am_nomad wrote: post #112
quotemstr wrote: post #101

I reject the premise that any communication can be "violent". If someone's conversation manual begins with the expansion of violence to cover speech, the philosophy behind this manual is likely so alien to me that I won't get anything out of it. I favor direct and specific communication that doesn't obfuscate or insult anyone's intelligence.

Thank you. This kind of thing contributes to the continuing embrittlement of the workplace and of society itself. And we know what happens to brittle things when they encounter a bit of stress.

This is why this is done to our societies.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#257

Post by sideshowb »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #160
telchar wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your workplace sounds toxic and full of backstabbing jerks. Am I misunderstand you? I can't imagine why you seem proud to work in such a place.

>>>Your workplace sounds toxic Well, it's the Marine Corps. It ain't a rose garden.[1][2] >>>full of backstabbing jerks Actually quite the contrary. If anything we are well-known for our solidarity.[3] Assuming there aren't issues due to rank/the command hierarchy, most personal disagreements are handled face-to-face. People try to stiff-arm work responsibilities off to other offices but I think that is endemic to an…

I'm generally a fan of direct communication but also find NVC interesting, and have thought about this a bit. Although I have nothing to do with the military now I trained to fly with the RAF volunteer reserve and I remember my instructor punching me once (not particularly hard, but the sort of thing that could easily get you fired in most jobs) when I messed up a turn. My folks knew a few high ranking army types some of whom had quite a bit of trouble integrating with civvy life when they left.

It strikes me that the military way of doing things, while appropriate in battle, might have downsides for those who end up flying desks. In particular if people are so accustomed to taking orders, how do you know whether or not you have an optimal balance of command versus information flowing upwards and initiative from subordinates? And does the authoritarian system produce good enough people in the highest ranks, or might top brass skills be better if they weren't so shaped by it themselves?

I guess you don't have to deal with longer term burnout issues as most people leave by the time they're 40.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#258

Post by jdowner »

Although I have heard the name before, I am not familiar with Nonviolent Communication. However, reading through the article, I could not help but notice the strong similarity between the 4 steps of NVC and the OODA loop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop).

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#259

Post by firepoet »

CathedralBorrow wrote: post #255
colordrops wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps a better name would help, such as "Non-hostile communication". There is no such thing as violent communication, and the confusion between speech and violence is precisely what is driving the current pro-censorship wave.

Can speech cause harm?

Absolutely. Social threat triggers the exact same pain response wiring in the brain as physical violence.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#260

Post by firepoet »

QualityReboot wrote: post #235
jph wrote: post #2

If you're in software development, especially on a development team, these ideas about nonviolent communication (NVC) may be able to help you and your team. The approach is: observe facts -> note feelings -> uncover desires -> make requests. For software development, I recommend a NVC approach called "Crucial Conversations". I summarize it on my repo. https://github.com/joelparkerhenderson/crucial_conversations

Please no. That reads like a cheat sheet for sociopaths. Conversations between good actors don't need to be engineered. These techniques are probably great if you're a police officer, lawyer, executive, or salesperson, but let's not turn our workplaces into that internally. I'm also in software development, and especially in this field, just talk directly to people. If you find that you can't connect with your team a…

Disagree 100%. “just talk directly to people” reads to me like an ill-informed tactic that allows all our worst habits to run amok. Studying these techniques and making them habitual is the key to a kinder, more thoughtful, and even more effective and productive teamwork experience.

I had a coworker who addressed my team about some difficulty they were having collaborating with us. They spoke directly, telling us we needed to get our act together and stop making half-baked requests. They were visibly angry and contemptuous. We all became much more fearful about talking to that person.

The next couple of days I heard they went on an apology tour. But I got skipped because I was on vacation. My rational self was fine with that, knowing stuff happens. But my emotional self responded with a knee jerk fear response when I walked into a room with that person. It’s an extra bit of stress I had to manage.

If this person practiced NVC I would not have had that experience.

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