U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#251

Post by throw7u6548 » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 12:49 PM UTC

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #154

Notice the wording - the drone targeted the workers. The drone didn’t make a decision and target the workers, the drone pilot targeted the workers, and whomever was standing behind them gave the order to launch the missle. The whole “I’m just doing what the computer said” defense only works in movies.

It’s possible some autonomous system marked them as candidates,

> In 2014, former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden said in a public debate, “We kill people based on metadata.”

> According to multiple reports and leaks, death-by-metadata could be triggered, without even knowing the target’s name, if too many derogatory checks appear on their profile. “Armed military aged males” exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place can become targets, as can someone “seen to be giving out orders.” Such mathematics-based assassinations have come to be known as “signature strikes.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#252

Post by rayiner » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 12:51 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #215

I wonder why, even though we generally try to be skeptical of the news, I’m not seeing many comments here that question whether what this article is saying is even accurate. How exactly does the reporter know which people are IS fighters? Is there some notion that militants don’t ever also farm? Also in these comments there seems to be a huge double standard. The idea the United States might accidentally kill some ci…

I’m against continued involvement in Afghanistan, for financial and practical reasons. That said, many folks have trouble wrapping their heads around all this because they’re moral relativists. The problem with terrorism is not merely the mechanics of asymmetric warfare. Civilians dying is bad and we should avoid it, but it’s obviously not morally dispositive since we do it too. If a foreign power occupied America, Americans would do the exact same thing. In fact, that’s what Americans did during the Revolution. You can’t hope to make sense of the issue unless you morally analyze the ends for which people are fighting. Islamic State is wrong and must be stamped out because the end for which they’re fighting is wrong. Americans fighting the British to establish a Republic, by contrast, is right.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#253

Post by mikeash » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 12:51 PM UTC

vonseel wrote: post #244

whiddershins wrote: post #215

I wonder why, even though we generally try to be skeptical of the news, I’m not seeing many comments here that question whether what this article is saying is even accurate. How exactly does the reporter know which people are IS fighters? Is there some notion that militants don’t ever also farm? Also in these comments there seems to be a huge double standard. The idea the United States might accidentally kill some ci…

I think Reuters is generally a reliable source, but I agree with your double standard points. This was a horrible accident, but you have to realize there are probably some very bad people they intended to target and the US doesn't blow up random Afghan farmers for fun and games. HN is quite the liberal community so I'm not surprised if some of the posters here think the Trump administration is more evil than the peop…

I like to imagine the reaction if it happened here.

Imagine that, say, China blew up 30 Americans in the US with a missile. And their reaction was, “sorry, my bad, I thought they were terrorists.”

Can you imagine the response? I think we’d have a nuclear war before the end of the day.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#254

Post by Phillips126 » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 12:53 PM UTC

I have kids and live in a rural U.S. town. I fear "normal" things such as drugs, school/gun violence, sex predators, etc. This... this is next level. I couldn't even fathom what it would be like if missiles rained from the sky at faster-than-sound speeds - from another country no less. You could say: "There aren't terrorists in rural U.S. towns," but I'd argue that isn't the case anymore with all the mass shootings, racial hatred, and so on. The world is in such a sad state.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#255

Post by mikeash » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 12:54 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #215

I wonder why, even though we generally try to be skeptical of the news, I’m not seeing many comments here that question whether what this article is saying is even accurate. How exactly does the reporter know which people are IS fighters? Is there some notion that militants don’t ever also farm? Also in these comments there seems to be a huge double standard. The idea the United States might accidentally kill some ci…

The double standard is easy to understand. The Taliban is evil, and we think that we are not.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#256

Post by waffle_ss » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 12:56 PM UTC

amingilani wrote: post #206

Related: Pakistan body count[0]. "Whether it is a suicide bombing or an attack by a flying drone, for me it's the same: a Pakistani got killed." I posted this site a few years ago, but it didn't get attention, but I'm glad to see the community is finally outraged over drone strikes. [0]: http://pakistanbodycount.org/

The site doesn’t differentiate between terrorists and civilians killed, so I don’t get the point? It’s not like Pakistan is running low on terrorists or the state intelligence service ISI isn’t sponsoring their activities.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#257

Post by captain_price7 » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 12:57 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #126

wruza wrote: post #2

Now imagine “U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in France” and feel the difference (which is non-existent). Then it goes on tv and reads the list of this morning’s evil men who must be stopped.

Now imagine “France knowingly harbors 911 terrorists.” “French leaders take credit for car bombing which kills 23 civilians.” There’s a historical reason for this discrepancy.

Yo, u are aware Afghanistan and Taliban two different things, right? Afghanistan didn’t harbor 911 terrorist, Taliban did. Afghanistan doesn’t carry out car bombing, Taliban do. Now while those afghan pine workers do share land with some of the worst scums on earth, they are not anymore guilty for Taliban's action than some random french farmers.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#258

Post by benjaminbrodie2 » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 12:57 PM UTC

derpherpsson wrote: post #210

Just keep bombing somewhat random people, year in and year out. Are we at the 2nd decade of this yet? This way I promise no one will join the rebells. Why would anyone join the rebells just because their families are slaughtered? That's absurd. (Irony.) There comes a time when YOU would strap on a bomb belt. Just imagine that They killed half your family and then goes on telling you they will continue doing it...

> There comes a time when YOU would strap on a bomb belt. Just imagine that They killed half your family and then goes on telling you they will continue doing it...

I don't think this is quite enough to push people over the ledge. If what killed half my family is someone who does not try to justify his actions morally, someone who I can therefore morally compare to a tiger or bear, I wouldn't strap on a bomb belt. But if the killer tries to tell the world he's eradicating evil, and the world high five with them, ...

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#259

Post by pnako » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 1:01 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #255

whiddershins wrote: post #215

I wonder why, even though we generally try to be skeptical of the news, I’m not seeing many comments here that question whether what this article is saying is even accurate. How exactly does the reporter know which people are IS fighters? Is there some notion that militants don’t ever also farm? Also in these comments there seems to be a huge double standard. The idea the United States might accidentally kill some ci…

The double standard is easy to understand. The Taliban is evil, and we think that we are not.

"The enemy is stupid; they think we are the enemy, but they actually are the enemy!" (French comedian Pierre Desproges)

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#260

Post by mikejb » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 1:03 PM UTC

derpherpsson wrote: post #210

Just keep bombing somewhat random people, year in and year out. Are we at the 2nd decade of this yet? This way I promise no one will join the rebells. Why would anyone join the rebells just because their families are slaughtered? That's absurd. (Irony.) There comes a time when YOU would strap on a bomb belt. Just imagine that They killed half your family and then goes on telling you they will continue doing it...

> There comes a time when YOU would strap on a bomb belt. Just imagine that They killed half your family and then goes on telling you they will continue doing it...

It's not that hard to imagine - after 9/11, people did enlist themselves to go and start shooting at others, sometimes with the consequence of dying themselves, believing it is for the greater good.