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In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

nytimes.com

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Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#251

Post by Afton »

paggle wrote: post #185
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many prisons in central and South America are run like this: the prisoners are thrown into a contained environment without guards otherwise, the prisoners themselves (usually visit a gangs) organize the prison economy and otherwise keep the peace (bar for some occasional riots).

That’s not good because it gives the leaders a quality of life that they shouldn’t be able to enjoy.

Wow. That's your criticism? That they leaders aren't suffering enough? You and I have very different ideas about what incarceration is for.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#252

Post by rdtwo »

lr4444lr wrote: post #69
vkou wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about all the people who aren't running around with pitchforks who have been diverted out of the addiction to prison pipeline? Would you rather be paying $100,000+ a year/person to judge and jail them for the crime of being addicted while poor? (I've yet to see people entering that pipeline for the crime of being addicted while rich.)

False dilemma. We can mandate them by court order to attend treatment programs. There are ways of helping petty criminals that don't involve locking them in a box 24/7.

Sure you can, but do we? And are there sufficient facilities to do so? A judge also mandated that the federal government house migrant children in a humane way but how well is that working out...point being that you can’t mandate something that there are no resources to do.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#253

Post by ianai »

thomasmeeks wrote: post #243
npo9 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am anti housing projects. To me, creating a housing projects is like sweeping the problem under the rug. It concentrates poverty and crime into the area in/around the projects.

Seattle spreads the housing projects around the city. In fact they just opened one in the South Lake Union area last year (just behind the Neptune apartments). They replaced a parking lot with something like 10-15 sheds for housing. They are in the 100-150 sq ft range, have electricity and a shared bathroom(s). I'm a touch fuzzy on the particulars because they also erect a very tall privacy fence around the whole thi…

I’m glad to learn some places are doing this!

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#254

Post by TheHypnotist »

chrisdhoover wrote: post #237
allana wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The severe wealth stratification that has occurred over the last few decades has left the majority of Americans facing a grim future of low earnings and unstable employment. Its easy to see how that would make many people depressed and lead to a cycle of addiction to escape this crappy reality.

Bollocks, overall more people are rising out of poverty

Tell that to those forced out by skyrocketing housing costs a la San Francisco, and as I've come to understand, parts of Seattle.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#255

Post by pnw_hazor »

lr4444lr wrote: post #69
vkou wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about all the people who aren't running around with pitchforks who have been diverted out of the addiction to prison pipeline? Would you rather be paying $100,000+ a year/person to judge and jail them for the crime of being addicted while poor? (I've yet to see people entering that pipeline for the crime of being addicted while rich.)

False dilemma. We can mandate them by court order to attend treatment programs. There are ways of helping petty criminals that don't involve locking them in a box 24/7.

They are ordered to treatment. Many don't go.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#256

Post by tenaciousDaniel »

just_lurkin wrote: post #17

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

I've heard that it's not legal to force people into rehab. But I can't see why this can't be done under something like the Baker Act.

If you're physically addicted to drugs, you are to some extent not capable of making rational choices, and this means you are a threat to yourself and to those around you. Could this not be a legal pretext to detain someone (humanely) and bring them to rehab treatment? Seems like a better alternative than jail, and certainly a better alternative to letting drug addicts rot on the streets.

I'm also not a lawyer and have no idea what I'm talking about, so feel free to lay into me and let me know why this idea is wrong or even crazy.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#257

Post by dsfyu404ed »

itsyaboi wrote: post #230
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but Seattle being Seattle it is not populated by the kind of people who will pack heat. That's like saying "well Austin is part of Texas so why doesn't everyone wear a cowboy hat and go hog hunting on the weekend." Both those cities are basically San Fransisco demographically speaking. And just because concealed carry legal doesn't mean the process is constructed in such a way that normal people can actually do…

Isn't Washington a open carry state?

Probably. IIRC most states are. Pretty much nobody who isn't a security guard or armored car employee who's actively working open carries not on their own property in any state.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#258

Post by [deleted] »

fzeroracer wrote: post #239
CPLX wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people write responses like this I wonder if they’ve ever been to New York City. We don’t really have comparable problems. For me visiting LA, SF or Seattle is jaw dropping. I totally reject this idea that these situations are just inevitable.

That's just objectively wrong. NYC has a higher homeless population both in sheer volume and per 100,000 people. So what is NYC doing to stop the growth of their homeless population beyond making it out of sight and out of mind?

[deleted]

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#259

Post by caymanjim »

CPLX wrote: post #98
empath75 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people say things like this, I do have to wonder if they've ever lived in a city before. Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s. There is just a certain amount of crime and drug use that will always exist in the big city. No amount of 'tough on crime' policing will make it go away.

When people write responses like this I wonder if they’ve ever been to New York City. We don’t really have comparable problems. For me visiting LA, SF or Seattle is jaw dropping. I totally reject this idea that these situations are just inevitable.

I suspect you aren't familiar with NYC from the 70s through the mid 90s. It was as bad then as SF is now. Giuliani completely transformed Manhattan and made the streets and parks usable again, and they stayed that way for a while. It's going downhill fast, though. Penn Station and Port Authority are turning into shooting galleries again, there are encampments growing, bodily waste on the sidewalks, and plenty of harassment. Give it another few years of hands-off policies and it'll be as bad as the west coast cities.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#260

Post by leetcrew »

sempron64 wrote: post #106
crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiding the world from our children instead of letting them see how awful the adults have made it is dishonest, at best. I prefer to teach kids how to find compassion for people in such situations.

Do you have kids? If you let them near active drug users as an object lesson, you need CPS called on you.

are you sure you aren't letting your kids near "active drug users" when you take them to family gatherings?
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