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What’s New in ES2019

blog.tildeloop.com

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Re: What’s New in ES2019

#251

Post by spankalee »

z3t4 wrote: post #211
mmartinson wrote: post #101

Honest question, not meant to be inflammatory. If we still need to target es5 4 years later, and transpilation is standard practice, why bother? Is the evolution of JS not directed in practice by the authors of Babel and Typescript? If no one can confidently ship this stuff for years after, what’s the incentive to even bother thinking about what is official vs a Babel supported proposal. I like the idea of idiomatic…

Almost all new features can be implemented is ES5 so instead of transpiling you can patch old engines. Eg. Array.prototype.flatmap

That's Array.prototype.flat

Re: What’s New in ES2019

#252

Post by DonHopkins »

chadlavi wrote: post #232
lucasmullens wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're in the age of "evergreen" browsers, where almost everyone is on a browser that auto updates. New features can be useable in maybe 2 years now, depending on your audience.

[laughs in enterprise web app]

Those people should just stick to IE5 anyway.

How about simply compiling IE5 into WebAssembly, wouldn't that solve the problem? ;)

Re: What’s New in ES2019

#253

Post by DonHopkins »

mantap wrote: post #247
mmartinson wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair, JS is everywhere and serves many use cases. The implicit "we" in that statement is developers 2019 who are building client side applications that need to get a lot done, run in most installed browsers, and remain maintainable to a 5-8 year horizon. Not everyone for certain, but probably enough to generalize, at least on this forum.

You tell such users: "Your browser is too old, please update it" and direct them to the Chrome and Firefox websites. With the exception of Safari, all major browsers support auto-updating, and anybody who intentionally uses an outdated version of Safari is a masochist with a deviant fetish for error messages.

And in the idealized fantasy world of Ayn Rand, any giant dinosaur enterprise corporation who insists on using antique outdated Jurrasic browsers deserves to be bitch-slapped by the invisible hand of the market into extinction for their outrageously dangerous security and privacy policies.

To bad the real world doesn't work the same as it does in self-indulgent libertarian porn...

Re: What’s New in ES2019

#254

Post by mmartinson »

Aperocky wrote: post #214
mmartinson wrote: post #101

Honest question, not meant to be inflammatory. If we still need to target es5 4 years later, and transpilation is standard practice, why bother? Is the evolution of JS not directed in practice by the authors of Babel and Typescript? If no one can confidently ship this stuff for years after, what’s the incentive to even bother thinking about what is official vs a Babel supported proposal. I like the idea of idiomatic…

As a purely backend engineer with a passionate hatred for NPM, I love writing ES6 and native javascript. All of the newer features (tbh, I don't know which are new but I guess 'const', 'arrow functions', 'default parameters', 'string interpolations', 'filter/map' are definitely a few of them and made javascript more like the back end language that I work with). I wrote at least a thousand line of native javascript fo…

What's your take on Node and backwards compatibility? Since you get to choose your runtime, is it valuable to stick with the same always-add, never remove approach as the browser? NPM taken out of the picture, I get writing one language everywhere would be nice. Do you just consider the bad parts to be the price to pay for not needing to keep track of the distinctions?

I've recently been working in Electron, and I find having app logic in both browser JS and Node to be more of a frustrating uncanny valley than a help. I suspect I'm in the minority on this one though, at least amount people with workaday skill set in client side JS.

Re: What’s New in ES2019

#255

Post by dotancohen »

ubertaco wrote: post #188
pault wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion this is a terrible idea, since it's very easy (I do it all the time) to accidentally write `if (foo = bar)` instead of `if (foo == bar)`. If that were valid syntax it would be a huge footgun. I'd be onboard with it if it required a different syntax.

I'm down if you require a let/var/const in front of it: if (foo = bar()) { // syntax error! } if (let foo = bar()) { // works fine } if (const foo = bar()) { // also works fine } if (var foo = bar()) { // also also works fine }

And what if foo had already been defined in the scope?

Re: What’s New in ES2019

#256

Post by mmartinson »

dbbk wrote: post #213
mmartinson wrote: post #101

Honest question, not meant to be inflammatory. If we still need to target es5 4 years later, and transpilation is standard practice, why bother? Is the evolution of JS not directed in practice by the authors of Babel and Typescript? If no one can confidently ship this stuff for years after, what’s the incentive to even bother thinking about what is official vs a Babel supported proposal. I like the idea of idiomatic…

> If we still need to target es5 4 years later This is only true if you're writing JavaScript for the client and you have to support IE11. For many companies, the usage for IE11 is so low now that it can be safely dropped, for instance my SaaS products all just target evergreen browsers.

It's still a moving target though. Either you transpile, and your target is just a config option, or you are in the business of being super selective about which "official" language features are ok to use for your user base. I can't imagine the business case for anything but write-anything, transpileto whatever the lowest common denominator of the day may be. Outside of one-off scripts, I don't imagine many browsers actually will be running any these new ES features until they become a compile target themselves in 8 years.

Re: What’s New in ES2019

#257

Post by bastawhiz »

mmartinson wrote: post #101

Honest question, not meant to be inflammatory. If we still need to target es5 4 years later, and transpilation is standard practice, why bother? Is the evolution of JS not directed in practice by the authors of Babel and Typescript? If no one can confidently ship this stuff for years after, what’s the incentive to even bother thinking about what is official vs a Babel supported proposal. I like the idea of idiomatic…

> If we still need to target es5 4 years later

You don't. Unless you care about IE11 (for most consumer products and mobile apps isn't necessary) you can use many of the features up through ES2016 or later without transpilation. My business uses JS classes, arrow and async functions, and new prototype methods without issue.

Re: What’s New in ES2019

#258

Post by mantap »

stevenmays wrote: post #112
rglover wrote: post #78

That array.flat() and array.flatMap() stuff is great to see. Always having to rely on lodash and friends to do that type of work. Exciting to see how JS is evolving.

I dig it too, but you could previously flatten an array with concat, and the spread operator. [].concat(...array) Lodash wasn't necessary.

No this is not an alternative, it will fail if the array is too large, as you will exceed the maximum number of arguments a function will accept (which is implementation defined).

In general the spread operator should only be used for forwarding arguments not for array operations.

Re: What’s New in ES2019

#260

Post by mmartinson »

DonHopkins wrote: post #253
mantap wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You tell such users: "Your browser is too old, please update it" and direct them to the Chrome and Firefox websites. With the exception of Safari, all major browsers support auto-updating, and anybody who intentionally uses an outdated version of Safari is a masochist with a deviant fetish for error messages.

And in the idealized fantasy world of Ayn Rand, any giant dinosaur enterprise corporation who insists on using antique outdated Jurrasic browsers deserves to be bitch-slapped by the invisible hand of the market into extinction for their outrageously dangerous security and privacy policies. To bad the real world doesn't work the same as it does in self-indulgent libertarian porn...

ha!
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