How is it like to be a dev in Iran • Hacker News Board

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#251

Post by yyyk » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:13 AM UTC

miracle2k wrote: post #130

yyyk wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The nuclear deal had a relatively invasive verification regime" A 'relatively invasive' inspection regime where you had to get permission in advance from Iran to visit 'military sites', and nearly all of the restrictions were temporary. "what specific terror acts are we speaking of?" There's a pretty massive civil war you may have heard of, where Iran is on the side which uses chemical weapons. Or maybe we could men…

> A 'relatively invasive' inspection regime where you had to get permission in advance from Iran to visit 'military sites', and nearly all of the restrictions were temporary. Thankfully, you can detect traces of nuclear material for months and years: https://www.iiss.org/blogs/survival-blog/2019/04/iaea-inspec... On the other hand, you might now get less access, an Iran as a nuclear threshold state, and the war to st…

'Detecting radioactive traces' isn't anywhere near enough.

You need to 'detect' centrifuge building and storage otherwise their breakout time ( = time to get nukes from the time they decide to just ignore the arrangements) is reduced to nothing and there isn't enough time to stop it.

Unfortunately, centrifuges don't have to be loaded with radioactive material before activation, so a large construction program would be undetectable under this scheme (especially given that some research and construction of centrifuges was allowed).

Another problem is actually the long trace detection time: that allows Iran to claim any trace is from the old nuclear program, and not a new one (that claim already happened. It's probably right this time). Since Iran was never asked to account for the old program, it can make the claim for any new site ever. It's not trivial to disambiguate whether a sample is new or old after a certain threshold, these are trace amounts after all. There would be plenty of room for doubt. With no possible proof, there would be no support for action against any new program.

"These things are not terrorism..."

I gather that Iran's support for genocide/mass ethnic cleansing is no biggie, but if you allow that in service of the deal, I wonder what you will allow in the future.

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#252

Post by mmrezaie » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:14 AM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #140

h0l0cube wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I work for a US company that routinely has to deal with cyber attacks by Iranian professionals, probably government sponsored. It's hard to posit a moral high-ground here, when basically every state is actively seeking to undermine the others' cyber security, including the US. Stuxnet is one of the most formidable state-sponsored cyber security exploits, and that was targeted at Iran, it seems easy justification to…

I don't think Stuxnet forfeits the moral high ground. It was narrowly focused on attacking a specific military project. It's exactly the kind of thing I want the CIA (or whatever) doing, especially if the alternative is sending bombs. State sponsored attempts to hack public network infrastructure fit into a totally different category. These are not the same.

> It was narrowly focused on attacking a specific military project.

Stuxnet targeted some common industrial controllers being sold not only to Iran, and one usage was the control flows on the dams. Basically it just caused the control flow gates to jam. This one that I know of is not military at all!

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#253

Post by Bootvis » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:15 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #233

knowThySelfx wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people I wish it was so one sided like we wish to paint it here. But starting a thread about this will only contribute to a never ending discussion thread. There is no moral high ground here. What we can do is to step away from this madness and try to make a general sense of it. All this warmongering is unneeded.

> There is no moral high ground here. Ok, so if there is no moral highground here, then don't play the sympathy card about Iran not "towing the line". Like fine. Its complicated. You were the one who originally trying to make it out to be one sided. And I am saying that this is ridiculous. They fund militant groups. > All this warmongering is unneeded. This is about sanctions. Not a ground invasion of Iran. It is not…

Implementing sanctions are economic warfare supported by superior force.

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#254

Post by pushpop » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:16 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #243

Assadi wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is that silly. The governments of the West are totally chill with regimes that are just as brutal, if not more brutal, than Iran, like Saudi Arabia. The difference really is mostly just "which side are you on".

"But another brutal theocracy is able to get away with stuff that is just as bad!" isn't a particularly convincing argument for why we should allow a different brutal theocracy to also get away with bad stuff. Feel free to argue that other bad governments that do bad things, should also be sanctioned or stopped in some way. That does not change the true fact Iran does indeed fund militant groups, and that this is a g…

I don’t think anyone on here is in favour of bad people doing bad things.

The general point is that when sanctions are used selectively on some regimes and the US buddy up with other regimes that follow the same kind of politics as the first regime; then you have to question if those sanctions are used for the good of the world (ie what is publicised) or for the good of the US (ie financial kick backs, back door deals, etc).

The fact that Saudi Arabia literally get away with murder because the US have profitable arms deals with them should speak volumes about the true purpose of sanctions.

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#255

Post by gdy » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:18 AM UTC

throwaway-klsdj wrote: post #193

grecy wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the nations with the most freedom have the most to lose. I'm genuinely curious - can you please expand on what exactly you mean by this?

- The nations with the most freedom also have complex, efficient industries and markets that provide high standards of living - These nations have complex governments designed to protect people from each other and from external threats - These nations are technologically advanced and highly reliant on things attached to networks - These nations have a lot more information freely available, and access to things All th…

"Imagine no electricity everywhere, no water, no sewer, no planes or trains, no tv or internet. It would be an apocalypse. The same thing happening to Iran might be difficult, but mostly annoying."

I can imagine people in Iran reading this and quite strongly disagreeing.

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#256

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:24 AM UTC

thedevilslawyer wrote: post #195

misingnoglic wrote: post #189

My heart breaks for these devs. I've been able to launch a successful development career specifically because I was born in the US (and my parents left Iran). If I was the same person in a different geographic area I'd be struggling under sanctions. Companies definitely need to push back on extra egregious legal teams who want to block services Iran, as it's mostly paranoia and not that the services actually fall und…

Isn't the point of sanctions to cause frustration by restrictions?

[deleted]

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#257

Post by knowThySelfx » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:24 AM UTC

flyinglizard wrote: post #250

I’m always caught by surprise when I see intelligent, educated people ignore the nature and actions of Iran to justify their adversarial feelings towards the US administration. Iran is on an unprecedented aggressive and violent push towards dominating the Middle East. They are deployed in Syria, building forward bases to threaten Israel, destabilize Lebanon and pushing it closer to another war with Israel by funding…

One side of the story. But the thing is, intelligent people will want to know why?

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#258

Post by gdy » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:25 AM UTC

trilila wrote: post #218

thedevilslawyer wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the point of sanctions to cause frustration by restrictions?

It is. But you see, those hit hardest by sanctions are neither the cause of trouble nor anti western. Those are usually people like you and i, while the “elite” can smuggle in whatever they want and access whatever they want. Not only that but regular folk is weakened and cant stand a chance against the well fed government. No sanctions means greater exposure to our way of life and thus an easier path for grassroots…

There is a Soviet joke, on unrelated subject, but relevant.

A father informs his son that the prices have gone up. The son asks: "Does that mean that you will drink less?" - "No son, that means that you will eat less."

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#259

Post by dgellow » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:31 AM UTC

flyinglizard wrote: post #250

I’m always caught by surprise when I see intelligent, educated people ignore the nature and actions of Iran to justify their adversarial feelings towards the US administration. Iran is on an unprecedented aggressive and violent push towards dominating the Middle East. They are deployed in Syria, building forward bases to threaten Israel, destabilize Lebanon and pushing it closer to another war with Israel by funding…

> Now, why would anyone in their right mind oppose sanctioning this country?

Just to answer your question, I don’t really have a position myself on the topic:

Embargos target the general population, making things way more difficult for normal people who are just trying to live their lives. That can potentially create pressure for the people responsible for the evil actions and decisions you want to sanction, but as a side effect a lot more people are negatively impacted. That seems quite immoral to me.

Re: How is it like to be a dev in Iran

#260

Post by trilila » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:31 AM UTC

gdy wrote: post #258

trilila wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. But you see, those hit hardest by sanctions are neither the cause of trouble nor anti western. Those are usually people like you and i, while the “elite” can smuggle in whatever they want and access whatever they want. Not only that but regular folk is weakened and cant stand a chance against the well fed government. No sanctions means greater exposure to our way of life and thus an easier path for grassroots…

There is a Soviet joke, on unrelated subject, but relevant. A father informs his son that the prices have gone up. The son asks: "Does that mean that you will drink less?" - "No son, that means that you will eat less."

Not a joke tho. For some people that's what it meant in communist east Europe. But good thing you brought this into discussion. Communist east Europe didn't have sanctions against, and as a result people would smuggle all sorts of western goods, up until they figured out: hey the politruks have all those fancy things, while we are told "west bad", "west capitalist corrupt", we should overthrow them. An oversimplification, but that's how it works. Regular folk get to learn that they have to struggle to access the modern world because of their OWN government, up to the point where they figure out "screw it, let's join the free world, i want my fancy cars and my fancy colour tvs, life is too short to praise a false prophecy".