Choose Boring Technology • Hacker News Board

Re: Choose Boring Technology

#251

Post by mcguire » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #229

rb808 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but after 10+ years they still just work I think this is also a mindset of devs who are committed to a job long term. Many places seem to churn through people every few years. If I had to look for a job every year or two I'd be doing resume-trendy "best tool for the job" stuff too. If I knew I'd be on the same system in 2029, I'd be keeping things easy to maintain.

And in all fairness, many people seem to churn through places every year or two because (among other reasons) they value newness over longer term projects.

"If you’re giving individual teams (or gods help you, individuals) free reign to make local decisions about infrastructure, you’re hurting yourself globally. It’s freedom, sure. You’re handing developers a ball of chain and padlocks and telling them to feel free to bind themselves to the operational toil that will be with them until the sweet release of grim death."

That last sentence really should be, "You’re handing developers a ball of chain and padlocks and telling them to feel free to bind you to the operational toil that will be with you until the sweet release of grim death." They can (and will) pack up their tents and move on well before any consequences appear.

Re: Choose Boring Technology

#252

Post by mcguire » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #243

oftenwrong wrote: post #58

Always glad to see this making the rounds, as it has been influential for me, especially the perspective of "Happiness comes from shipping stuff". I often think about this part, in particular: >Then we walked away. We didn’t do anything related to activity feeds for years after that. We barely even thought about it. >Then one day I said, “hey, I wonder how activity feeds is doing.” And I looked at it and was surprise…

> Happiness comes from shipping stuff But Buddha says that the road is more important than the destination ...

Shipping stuff is the road.

Re: Choose Boring Technology

#253

Post by aphextim » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

When reading the headline, I felt as if this was a logan/advertisement for Elon Musk's company.

Re: Choose Boring Technology

#254

Post by mcguire » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

hadsed wrote: post #153

parasubvert wrote: post #98

A huge part of our VC bubble in OSS infrastructure (NoSQL, clouds, middleware, automation) is fueled by a generation of technologists not choosing boring technology. This is a great presentation, and great advice. What this piece misses are the marketing, hiring practices and incentives in that capital pool that is fueling FOMO (fear of missing out) as the main driver of our technology trends. Most people orbiting IT…

Not sure I agree with this perspective. Many of these companies are started by engineers or product managers who have seen the boring solutions not work for them. In some cases they either see it not work many times or see a future where other organizations get to that point and need a better solution. In digging into what these companies do it becomes clear that they aren't doing it just to push new tech, but maybe…

"Many of these companies are started by engineers or product managers who have seen the boring solutions not work for them."

Most of the time (not all, but almost all of the time), if a "boring solution" doesn't work for you, the problem is you, not the solution. There's a reason it is boring.

Re: Choose Boring Technology

#255

Post by core-questions » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 5:57 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #133

diroussel wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing about that expression is that wheels have never been reinvented. As far as we know. The Summarians had them, and the technology spread through contract with other civilizations. But not as far as we know re-invented anywhere else.

I think people at the same epoch living in other continents did reinvent them.

That's independent invention, not re-invention. Reinvention requires that you could conceivably be aware of / be using an existing technology, but instead you choose to create it from scratch yourself.

Re: Choose Boring Technology

#256

Post by brightball » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 5:59 PM UTC

extra88 wrote: post #202

brightball wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The code that I've shipped that, 10 years later still runs at previous organizations with no support needed is really something I'm very proud of when I look back. At once point we actually wrote an AJAX site that worked in IE6, Firefox and Safari (pre-Chrome), before Prototype, jQuery or JSON was even a thing...and it still worked perfectly 10 years later. All hand coded JS and backend PHP + Java. It's one of the re…

> it still worked perfectly 10 years later. All hand coded JS and backend PHP + Java. Is the server running ten-year-old PHP & Java or did you manage to write code not affected by any language changes? I would expect some changes to be necessary for PHP 5.2 era code to keep working even on PHP 5.6.

I know it was still running but I don’t know about the hosting infrastructure upgrades after I left. When it was deployed it was PHP4.

Re: Choose Boring Technology

#257

Post by stevenwliao » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 6:00 PM UTC

samirm wrote: post #239

xwdv wrote: post #86

There’s a certain amount of ladder kicking involved in telling people to choose boring and beige technologies after you started up your career chasing after new and exciting shiny things. Every developer should spend some time working at the bleeding edge, so they know how it feels to get cut. The best time is absolutely at the beginning, when you’re a fresh grad and have the energy. You have the rest of your life to…

I feel like that's terrible advice for a fresh grad. If they keep getting cut early on, they will lose confidence and start doubting every decision they make, losing motivation to work on anything and burn out.

If they are always overruled when they want to try something new, they will also lose confidence and motivation.

Re: Choose Boring Technology

#258

Post by mcguire » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 6:00 PM UTC

bonoboTP wrote: post #168

fogetti wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that those people who chose shiny new technology only see the benefit, while all the others in the company will rot in hell because of the stupid choice of a junior engineer (who jumped ships 3 times meanwhile). I don't see how does that benefit the company? The whole point of the article is that you should make wise technology decisions which benefits the whole organization.

> The problem is that those people who chose shiny new technology only see the benefit, while all the others in the company will rot in hell because of the stupid choice of a junior engineer (who jumped ships 3 times meanwhile). I don't see how does that benefit the company? The whole point of the article is that you should make wise technology decisions which benefits the whole organization. Sure, if your interests…

Once upon a time, there was value seen in the weird concept of "professionalism."

Re: Choose Boring Technology

#259

Post by Balgair » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 6:01 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #246

I am in complete agreement with this. (Sing it, brother!) But, " My friend Andrew wears the same brand of black shirt every day. He thinks that if he conserves the brainpower it would take to pick something to wear, he’ll bank it and be able to use it later for something else. [...] I like to think about it like this. Let’s say that we all get a limited number of innovation tokens to spend. [...] These represent our…

The meme that you can 'save up' or 'train' your mental reserves has seen a bit of a come-back lately. However, the scientific evidence of such a thing is scant to none. In general, people that claim you can train your focus and eureka-moments are not looking at the evidence. Brett at AoM has a good intro article on it here: https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/motivation-over-disc...

Tl;DR: Be disciplined, not motivated. Don't worry too much as well.

Re: Choose Boring Technology

#260

Post by mcguire » Tue, Jul 02, 2019, 6:02 PM UTC

delusional wrote: post #219

xwdv wrote: post #86

There’s a certain amount of ladder kicking involved in telling people to choose boring and beige technologies after you started up your career chasing after new and exciting shiny things. Every developer should spend some time working at the bleeding edge, so they know how it feels to get cut. The best time is absolutely at the beginning, when you’re a fresh grad and have the energy. You have the rest of your life to…

Isn't it a bit silly to presuppose that what we have now is the best we are ever going to get. I mean, files were state of the art at one point, but i don't think anyone will suggest we go back to punchcards. "Boring Technology" is the wrong thing to aim for. Aim for simplicity.

Which JavaScript framework is the simple one?