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Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

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251–260 of 525 posts

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#251
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If 80% of the planet goes green, but 20% is still emitting pollutions, we are still in the same boat (just not sinking as fast). I'm not sure this is actually representative of the facts. We don't need 100% of the planet to go green to stabilize our temperature below a threshold and there are negative feedbacks on carbon emissions.

Agreed. And you are right. I made these numbers up; and I ca n imagine a scenario that would allow MOST of the planet to go green and we can stop the damage. But in my scenario, what if that 20% are countries like China and Russia; that produce and consume alot of energy. Just a thought experiment. My point is, we have to have the whole world be on the same page to solve the real issues that would cause us to continu…

China consumes a lot of energy because they have a lot of people, and they produce most of the world's cheap goods.

Also, please dont make numbers up. How would you feel if a climate-change denier simply made his numbers up during a debate? We live in a time where there is fake news everywhere, even though actual facts are easier than ever to look up and verify. There's no need to make anything up.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s exactly it though. Conservatives are no doubt irritated by environmental jeremiads because they know revivals and camp meetings when they see them. Usually when this seaweed reducing methane stuff gets mentioned you hear crickets from the hair-shirt crowd

I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying. Can you elaborate?

I’m agreeing with you but I’m saying for a lot of environmentalists they have guilt they want to purge and a solution like that won’t do it.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#253
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current forms of government we have in most countries seem to reward only economical success. Any attempts to tackle any environmental issues are invariantly watered down, postponed, or downright dismissed because enacting them has consequences for the electorate, and a large part of the electorate is willing to vote for parties or people that don't quite feel the urgency, or even downright deny the need to act.…

> The current forms of government It's not the form of government, it's not the form of society, it's a psychological vulnerability that has been exacerbated by the invention of agriculture, currency, paper money, and now digital money. It's about accumulation of goods as a hedge against future insecurity, when the irony is that the pursuit of the accumulation of goods and earthly wealth is exactly the thing that has…

I agree, and I think that was well articulated.

Do you have any ideas for solving it?

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#254

I have a theory, and I have no evidence to back this theory up. The increases in anxiety in the general public over the last decade or so is in large part to people knowing we're on an unsustainable path. We're all collectively marching towards the edge of the cliff to jump off together. More people than ever have anxiety because we subconsciously (or consciously) know this. We're unsustainable with how we pollute an…

Humans are good at being anxious due to the precariousness of life. Especially for things we don’t fully understand. For example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halley's_Comet#1910 Why is the environment any different?

Because the rate of change is too slow to perceive it as something that is critical. When looked at on a geological time-scale this is all happening in an eye blink. When looked at on a human timescale it is spread out over many years and so there is time enough to get accustomed to the new baseline as the change is happening.

The only thing different between an explosion and wind is the rate of change.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#255
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. And you are right. I made these numbers up; and I ca n imagine a scenario that would allow MOST of the planet to go green and we can stop the damage. But in my scenario, what if that 20% are countries like China and Russia; that produce and consume alot of energy. Just a thought experiment. My point is, we have to have the whole world be on the same page to solve the real issues that would cause us to continu…

> China and Russia Well, that's already over 20% of the world population!

Throw in India and you now have a problem. I love sports analogies, because they represent pure human emotion and psyche. I'm not a stat padder. I don't care if I average a triple-double like Westbrook if I can't get past the first round. I want a championship.

If you have lung cancer, it's great that you can quantify how much LESS you smoke. "Since I've developed lung cancer, my smoking has decreased 90%". Cool story bro... Why don't you just quit.

For sure, we need to do EVERYTHING we can to keep us in the game and our planet alive; but I'm not interested in splitting hairs about what, for instance, China is or isn't doing. Be real. They have a WHOLE middle class that is growing and wants to live like Americans. Judging them now would be very wrong; because in 20 years their population of "polluters" is going to increase. Regardless of what green technology China invests in; the have a BILLION people living in smog and VERY POLLUTED areas that have NO INFRASTRUCTURE. They haven't begun to start paying that cost (you know that thing that took the USA 50 years to build and is even starting to break in our country). I think they only guarantee we have is if we are all on the same page; even if that only nets us a 1% change toward climate change in the short-term. We need a dramatic change in our outlook toward life and how we proceed to live. This has nothing to do with climate change directly; but is prolly the biggest driver of it.

I bring it back to the Avengers. We are in tech. We all talk a good game about changing the world with tech, AI, machine learning, etc. The end result is just another dog dating app, because people "can't find problems to solve". Are you kidding me? Save the world kid! We need heroes. We need individuals to take full responsibility and come up with moonshot solutions.

If the people who visit Hacker News can't at least use their imagination to try to thing of some global moonshot; no one will. I want you to realize that. I hope that my solution will help (still working on it); but it could just be a toy and a pipe dream. But you know what... At least I fucking tried. At least I can take these Super hero myths and do something constructive with them.

That's what we used to get in tribe, you know? You would be told stories of your great, great, grandmother; who saved the whole tribe. And that DNA runs in you; so you must live up to your ancestors. But instead of us internalizing these things, I guess we just wait for the last Star Wars movie....

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#256

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

The "incapable politicians"-part, are you saying that this is the case globaly or that it is the case in your country?

Because on a global scale I disagree. As an example, google "china and india planting trees".

Edit: Just to clarify: I think that we need both systematic and personal change. And in a democracy, a good way to make politicians care about a subject, is to make sure that they know that you won't vote for someone who doesn't care.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#257
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>quick google search reveal the bee is important for pollination. I suspect that you might not be the best informed person out there.

Ok, can u elaborate ? you mention about bees. I response that bee might be able to be replaced by some other method.

Unfortunately there is no other method to bee pollination which can operate at the same scales or the same price.

It's like talking about alternatives to soil: There are alternatives to soil, but you can't just quickly replace all of the Earth's vast food producing farms with a technology alternative without serious consequences, and if soil stopped working overnight, billions of people would die.

Bees aren't disappearing overnight, but they are disappearing worryingly quickly. If it carries on, losing bees is a very serious issue for our food supply.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. And you are right. I made these numbers up; and I ca n imagine a scenario that would allow MOST of the planet to go green and we can stop the damage. But in my scenario, what if that 20% are countries like China and Russia; that produce and consume alot of energy. Just a thought experiment. My point is, we have to have the whole world be on the same page to solve the real issues that would cause us to continu…

China consumes a lot of energy because they have a lot of people, and they produce most of the world's cheap goods. Also, please dont make numbers up. How would you feel if a climate-change denier simply made his numbers up during a debate? We live in a time where there is fake news everywhere, even though actual facts are easier than ever to look up and verify. There's no need to make anything up.

> Also, please dont make numbers up. How would you feel if a climate-change denier simply made his numbers up during a debate? We live in a time where there is fake news everywhere, even though actual facts are easier than ever to look up and verify. There's no need to make anything up.

They were imagining a hypothetical scenario, no?

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#259

I have a theory, and I have no evidence to back this theory up. The increases in anxiety in the general public over the last decade or so is in large part to people knowing we're on an unsustainable path. We're all collectively marching towards the edge of the cliff to jump off together. More people than ever have anxiety because we subconsciously (or consciously) know this. We're unsustainable with how we pollute an…

I also have a theory. Anxiety is increasing because anxiety sells. The right leaning sites raise anxiety about immigrants. Left leaning sites raise anxiety that Trump is on his way to becoming a dictator. Environmental sites raise anxiety about species going extinct. Business sites raise anxiety about increase regulation and taxes.

Meanwhile, humans are the best off we have ever been. This is one of the most peaceful times in history. We have more opportunity and less inequality than before. For the first time in history, half our population is not subject to endless pregnancies and high maternal mortality. Women are valued not primarily for the child-bearing or child-rearing but for their ability to contribute to the full spectrum of society.

In addition, we are more capable of dealing with the vagaries of nature. Take for example Ebola. We came up with treatments and then a vaccine.

We also know how to control our environments. Air conditioning allows humans to live comfortably in some of the hottest climates on earth. We also know how to efficiently produce food, and more importantly to transport food from one area of the world to another.

For energy, we are not dependent on cutting down trees for firewood. We can know harvest sunlight, wind, and atoms to create unthinkable amounts of energy.

We are just on the cusp of having the capability to colonize another celestial body!

Yet, it is not the good news that sells in our attention economy. It is bad news and fear and outrage.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#260

Two anecdotes: 1) There was an area of marshland close to where I live. A small part of it was drained for agriculture. Immediately after this, the insect population in the area went way down. You didn't have to measure it. We were swamped with insects, then there were virtually none. Habitat seems to be a big thing but I'm not sure how it compares with pesticides. 2) I saw a documentary once about a guy in India gro…

There was a Planet Money where they interviewed people about the Dicamba murder, and one of the farmers said something along the lines of "yeah, we can farm without pesticides. But it's a lot of work!"

The future may be in de-automating farming. Food is already a negligible cost in the US (compared to housing and healthcare). Create job programs for the heartlands! How is this a not a huge political opportunity! Do farm owners have that much rent-seeking influence?

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