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Women: Learn to Program This Summer

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Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#251

Post by ajross »

DBYCZ wrote: post #246

Anyone who argues that there should be "More women in tech" needs to go visit a medical college. Completely filled with super smart women interested in science. If STEM women found Coding as interesting as they did Medicine (which is arguably more competitive and prestigious), we wouldn't have any shortage of women writing code. There is nothing wrong with either way, just let people do what they like to do.

What's the evidence that women aren't coding because they aren't "interested"? If you want to make that argument, don't you need to go and refute all the anecdotal evidence that women aren't entering tech careers because they don't feel welcome?

I cite as evidence the fact that women in med schools have not, in fact, always been well represented and that the same kind of rhetoric about their "interests" was used to exclude them from medicine as recently as our parents' generation.

So... given a choice between "tech is fundamentally different from medicine and chicks don't like it" and "tech is behind medicine's adoption curve with resepect to gender inclusion", I'm taking the later as the obvious hypothesis.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#252

Post by rubicon33 »

astura wrote: post #219
rubicon33 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck with that complaint to the EEOC as a white man.

The EEOC absolutely investigates discrimination against white males. https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/initiatives/e-race/caselist.cfm#re...

I never said it's not possible. I said good luck. Pointing out a handful of cases hardly proves that they're given the same level of consideration.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#253

Post by pbhjpbhj »

rubicon33 wrote: post #71
nck4222 wrote: post #50

I'm trying to figure out on what side of the debate I fall on this one. On the one hand, women have obviously been disadvantaged in many ways, for many years, which is wrong. The gender disparity in software development is well documented, and should be fixed. No one should be discouraged from learning, or opportunities denied because of gender. On the other hand, a for-profit company deciding to offer free services…

> The gender disparity in software development is well documented, and should be fixed. No one should be discouraged from learning, or opportunities denied because of gender. I can tell you why. In part, it's explicit sexism and goal keeping from men, sure. But a far bigger reason there are less women in tech? Step into any engineering course at a 4 year university. Come back and tell me how many women where in your…

Do you think education is a female thing? Is that the message having 85% of primary teachers being female (100% in my kids UK school) gives to boys.

If your contention is correct, the absence of male teachers for impressionable young children must be a massively damaging thing? Much worse than a preponderance of one sex or another of students in a lecture theatre?

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#254

Post by temptemptemp111 »

We know you're manipulating the front page ideologically. We know you've shadow banned hundreds not due to anything in the HN rules, but due to your ideology. I'm just posting this for others to see... You and I have been over this many times in the past and you refuse to be honest.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#255

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

sound1 wrote: post #106
seancoleman wrote: post #28

My girlfriend, a nurse of 10+ years, just started learning to code on her own, built her first (basic) website ( https://www.nataliepeterson.dev ) and is applying to Lambda School already. I sent this to her this morning and she was elated. Programs like this really work.

"hi cutie" lol... someone knows how to market well

Yeah, it was certainly one of the more flattering websites I've seen all week. :)

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#256

Post by pbhjpbhj »

criddell wrote: post #89
nck4222 wrote: post #50

I'm trying to figure out on what side of the debate I fall on this one. On the one hand, women have obviously been disadvantaged in many ways, for many years, which is wrong. The gender disparity in software development is well documented, and should be fixed. No one should be discouraged from learning, or opportunities denied because of gender. On the other hand, a for-profit company deciding to offer free services…

Should you only help some people if you are willing to help all people? It's a partial solution to a small part of a big problem.

So "only whites may apply for this scholarship" is fine then?

Clearly not IMO, there needs to be a morally defensible reason for restricting the field by physical characteristics; sex and skin colour/race are not good reasons in general.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#257

Post by tracker1 »

ajiang wrote: post #58

EDIT: To clarify that the money is going directly to private individuals, as per Austen. Incredible, thanks for putting your money where your values are @jl. As for the numerous comments in this post around reverse sexism / reverse discrimination: 1. This is a private individual giving personal capital to other private individuals, supporting a personal cause. It is hard to both claim principles of free market and ra…

As to #2, is it bias when the candidate pool is self-selecting? I mean, generally we're talking about an industry where a self-starter can learn, get their foot in the door and build a career. Every actual study I've seen actually indicates bias in favor of women. The fact that the candidate pool is so unbalanced to me seems to indicate an issue in education or no issue at all (self-selecting), not corporate hiring.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#258

Post by henryaj »

ajross wrote: post #251
DBYCZ wrote: post #246

Anyone who argues that there should be "More women in tech" needs to go visit a medical college. Completely filled with super smart women interested in science. If STEM women found Coding as interesting as they did Medicine (which is arguably more competitive and prestigious), we wouldn't have any shortage of women writing code. There is nothing wrong with either way, just let people do what they like to do.

What's the evidence that women aren't coding because they aren't "interested"? If you want to make that argument, don't you need to go and refute all the anecdotal evidence that women aren't entering tech careers because they don't feel welcome? I cite as evidence the fact that women in med schools have not, in fact, always been well represented and that the same kind of rhetoric about their "interests" was used to e…

> "tech is behind medicine's adoption curve with resepect to gender inclusion"

also seems like a hard-to-believe hypothesis.

See https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more... for an outline of the 'interest' hypothesis - essentially, women are stronger than men in both verbal and math/science domains, but prefer the former, so will pick subjects that more closely align with their interests when society lets them do so. In countries with worse egalitarianism and social security, they'll gravitate towards subjects that bring them more economic freedom.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#259

Post by allen37 »

A great message. I love HN for this very reason. Just today I noticed an article about an Army interrogator turned concientious objector. At the latter portion of my military career I too was an interrogator. I avoided posting because I realized the topic was too hot and likely to become political. It didn't hurt my feelings, I simply moved on with my day.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#260

Post by QualityReboot »

ajross wrote: post #251
DBYCZ wrote: post #246

Anyone who argues that there should be "More women in tech" needs to go visit a medical college. Completely filled with super smart women interested in science. If STEM women found Coding as interesting as they did Medicine (which is arguably more competitive and prestigious), we wouldn't have any shortage of women writing code. There is nothing wrong with either way, just let people do what they like to do.

What's the evidence that women aren't coding because they aren't "interested"? If you want to make that argument, don't you need to go and refute all the anecdotal evidence that women aren't entering tech careers because they don't feel welcome? I cite as evidence the fact that women in med schools have not, in fact, always been well represented and that the same kind of rhetoric about their "interests" was used to e…

> If you want to make that argument, don't you need to go and refute all the anecdotal evidence that women aren't entering tech careers because they don't feel welcome?

Who feels welcome in tech? It's an elitest culture filled with strong personalities that fancies itself a meritocracy.

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