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Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

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Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#251

Post by glenneroo »

Frondo wrote: post #114
roel_v wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having just installed Signal yesterday, in what respect is it worse than Whatsapp (from a UI pov)? The only thing I found so far is the bad integration with contacts.

Having used Signal, Telegram, and Whatsapp heavily (friends on all three, natch), here's my one absolutely critical beef with Signal: It doesn't always deliver messages, and it more frequently doesn't deliver them in a timely fashion. In my experience, Signal delays delivery of messages about 5% of the time -- which is actually huge and makes it unusable for reliable chats. The story which made me never trust Signal…

Weird, several friends and I have more or less this exact same issue with messages not being delivered for hours with WhatsApp, but never with Signal.

I agree with the SMS replacement for Android and uninstalling causing woes trying to send secure messages, have been bitten by that one on several occasions. Thankfully most people I talk to have multiple apps installed.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#252

Post by [deleted] »

jhoechtl wrote: post #243
mgw wrote: post #15

I understand Telegram's appeal because of its high quality apps and big feature list, but articles such as this one really should be more nuanced when pushing Telegram's marketing message of "We have true privacy and unlimited space for everyone.". Their default mode is not end-to-end encrypted [1] and as such the product is less private than WhatsApp. Even tech-savvy users in my social circles are not aware of this…

Signal all the way down. It's the only viable solution we have now on a compromise level between security, usability and user base.

[deleted]

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#253

Post by tivert »

newscracker wrote: post #221
ardy42 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Signal actively blocks chats from being backed up (and restored) on iOS. I don't think that's true. Signal's backups require you to copy a file from your old phone to your new phone's storage. It's possible on Android to mount your phone's filesystem on a PC. IIRC, Apple is the one that doesn't make that easy on iOS, not Signal.

What I said (specifically about iOS) is true and has been so since 2015 (or earlier). See [1] and [2] that I linked in another comment here and check on backups explicitly being denied on iOS. This has nothing to do with Apple, and everything to do with the Signal team not willing to make it user friendly (for this case). [1]: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/wiki/FAQ [2]: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-i…

> See [1] and [2] that I linked in another comment here and check on backups explicitly being denied on iOS.

They apparently have an open issue for this (though it looks like it's locked to prevent people from endlessly complaining in their bug tracker).

https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/2542

It also sounds like they have a branch where they're working on this feature:

https://whispersystems.discoursehosting.net/t/ios-backup-kee...

> This has nothing to do with Apple, and everything to do with the Signal team not willing to make it user friendly (for this case).

I'd be interested to know the precise reason they have for not implementing this. You seem to have a pretty negative opinion of Signal, but I doubt they've avoided implementing backups on iOS just because they're "not willing to make it user friendly" (which is really uncharitable take, btw). Perhaps there's some nuance to iOS that makes backups far more difficult to implement than on Android while providing the same security guarantees.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#254

Post by elcomet »

WA wrote: post #174

I guess nobody knows Threema (threema.ch) outside of Central Europe. The UI isn't as perfect as Whatsapp's, but close enough. I tried to use iMessage the other day and I'm extremely surprised that a product that is used that broadly in the US is that shitty. Downsides around sending voice messages (which I do frequently): - You must hold the stupid button to record - If you record and turn your phone, the recording b…

> The UI isn't as perfect as Whatsapp's, but close enough.

WhatsApp's UI is aweful compared to telegram. So if threema "isn't as perfect as WhatsApp", I'm a bit scared.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#255

Post by OJFord »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #193
WA wrote: post #174

I guess nobody knows Threema (threema.ch) outside of Central Europe. The UI isn't as perfect as Whatsapp's, but close enough. I tried to use iMessage the other day and I'm extremely surprised that a product that is used that broadly in the US is that shitty. Downsides around sending voice messages (which I do frequently): - You must hold the stupid button to record - If you record and turn your phone, the recording b…

Anecdotally, iMessage’s voice feature doesn’t get much use. Everybody I know uses it text only and opts for dictation over voice messages. Personally I prefer text. Telegram’s voice message support is much better, but without fail when someone sends me one I end up listening to it 2-3+ times to make sure I heard/understood it correctly. Never have that problem with text.

I think Chinese people do, at least that was my experience of peers at university (in the UK) - many would wonder around either holding phone perpendicular to face, or with an earphone wire microphone strapped around their mouth having essentially asynchronous telephone conversations. Best of both, in a way?

Maybe it's also about language - easier to speak Mandarin than type or draw it on a touchscreen? I don't know.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#256

Post by tivert »

Tomte wrote: post #249
tivert wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Signal/RedPhone did invent its own crypto (the ratchet), didn't they? IIRC, they didn't invent any crypto primitives (e.g. cyphers).

Sure, but the primitives are pretty boring, anyway. Few people try to invent those. Many more try to invent new constructions on top of the primitives. That's where things go wrong, in practice. (I fully trust in OWS here, but "don't invent crypto" is an unsuitable argument in a Signal-vs-Telegram discussion)

> Many more try to invent new constructions on top of the primitives. That's where things go wrong, in practice.

Things go wronger when non-cryptographers try to invent their own primitives, and that's what the saying "don't invent your own crypto" was invented to warn against.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#257

Post by fvjft »

WA wrote: post #174

I guess nobody knows Threema (threema.ch) outside of Central Europe. The UI isn't as perfect as Whatsapp's, but close enough. I tried to use iMessage the other day and I'm extremely surprised that a product that is used that broadly in the US is that shitty. Downsides around sending voice messages (which I do frequently): - You must hold the stupid button to record - If you record and turn your phone, the recording b…

3.50€ for an IM app when there are dozens that are free? Yeah, no.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#258

Post by dunham »

ardy42 wrote: post #153
newscracker wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When talking about privacy these articles should at least mention Signal. I hope they will use their recent funding [2] to polish their apps and increase the speed of innovation. I keep repeating this often, but Signal is not a user friendly platform for average users. It is good for ephemeral chats and conversations that one wouldn't care about later. Signal actively blocks chats from being backed up (and restored…

> Signal actively blocks chats from being backed up (and restored) on iOS. I don't think that's true. Signal's backups require you to copy a file from your old phone to your new phone's storage. It's possible on Android to mount your phone's filesystem on a PC. IIRC, Apple is the one that doesn't make that easy on iOS, not Signal.

Apple has backup and restore of device files and the keychain. You can explicitly mark files as "don't back up" and mark keychain items as "this device only" (those items will get backed up, but need a key from the security enclave of that specific device to restore).

It sounds like Signal is explicitly marking its data in this fashion on iOS. I don't know if Android has any options like this for securing data, I'd expect Signal to utilize those options if they were available.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#259

Post by kpcyrd »

mgw wrote: post #15

I understand Telegram's appeal because of its high quality apps and big feature list, but articles such as this one really should be more nuanced when pushing Telegram's marketing message of "We have true privacy and unlimited space for everyone.". Their default mode is not end-to-end encrypted [1] and as such the product is less private than WhatsApp. Even tech-savvy users in my social circles are not aware of this…

They also aggressively reject certain phone numbers.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#260

Post by lykr0n »

vonseel wrote: post #250
lykr0n wrote: post #170

Telegram is great because, for me, for two reasons: 1. Extremely well written mobile and desktop apps. Great performance and low resource usage. 2. Group functionality. It's not fully secure, but there are a bunch of thriving communities on there that are great. Local groups, coding groups, IT groups, etc. Also- if you're part of the furry community it is the de-facto communication platform.

> furry community it is the de-facto communication platform. Interesting fact, haha.

ProTip. If you ever see a furry sticker, don't open the pack. There is a 50% chance that they get NSFW
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