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Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

cbc.ca

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Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#251

Post by kenneth »

djsumdog wrote: post #144
js2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the risk of grounding planes is operational inconvenience Is it possible there is a safety risk to grounding the 737 Max that outweighs the risk of allowing it to fly?

People are most likely going to be shuffled around to other planes. 737s use to be for a lot of short haul flights, but they're being used increasingly for mid and even long haul flights. They're often far enough it's impractical to drive, and at least in the European market, trains are always a more expensive, but available alternative. If the FAA took action, in the US people would probably just postpone trips unle…

Flying American or Southwest is going to be an absolute shitshow in the coming weeks, if they are truly losing such a large portion of their fleets it's going to be hard to accommodate so many passengers at once.

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#252

Post by [deleted] »

yingw787 wrote: post #157

And then there was one. I do wonder if we can halt and revert the deterioration of the Civil Service before the whole "civilization is two days worth of food and water" scenario arrives. If it does, I think it'll be through something that generates a disproportionate amount of fear and anxiety in people resulting in a significant impact to the economy in a sector where middle to upper class folks are heavily exposed…

[deleted]

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#253

Post by inferiorhuman »

TheArcane wrote: post #12
nikanj wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is extremely tightly tied to the US economy, and the US government is still taking Boeing’s side on this. I wish this didn’t have to be about politics.

> US government is still taking Boeing’s side on this It's all fun and games until a Max 8 nosedives on US soil

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47562727

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#254

Post by inferiorhuman »

chrisbolt wrote: post #88
peteretep wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Canada is extremely tightly tied to the US economy Canada also is home to one of the four major aerospace companies that make planes people are willing to fly on. Think of all the CRJ700s you could sell if people got flighty about using 737s. I'm sure the Canadians are grounding them for all the right reasons, but let's be clear: they stand to gain if the 737 loses favour.

CRJs do not compete with 737s. If the 737 loses favour, the A319/320/321 would replace it.

The C-series is much closer to competing with the 737/A319.

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#255

Post by anigbrowl »

js2 wrote: post #20

Having read many commments on HN and elsewhere since the crash, I know I’m in the minority here when I say this but to me it seems like the US airlines and FAA are following their procedures, the same procedures that make the US airlines the safest in the world, while the rest of the world is, I don’t quite want to use the word panicking, but at least giving into pressure from people who aren’t aviation safety expert…

Let the downvotes begin.

HN guidelines ask that you don't bait people this way, it's toxic to discussion.

While you're trying to field a rational argument, doing so using pejorative language (panicking, giving in to pressure) preemptively delegitimizes other points of view and thus undercuts your own credibility. Certainly facts and procedure are great but it's also a fact that a large number of people just died in circumstances that are uncertain; you're essentially arguing that the uncertainty should not be considered absent a causal mechanism.

Why is it so important not to adjust our course while investigations proceed? After all we have an elaborate financial services industry devoted to the mitigation of economic risk, so why shouldn't we allow that to operate? Voluntary risk-bearers (insurance and reinsurance firms, option issuers etc) can do their thing and shoulder the financial burden of the disruption rather than expecting passengers to shoulder vital risks which they're not qualified to assess.

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#256

Post by devy »

js2 wrote: post #20

Having read many commments on HN and elsewhere since the crash, I know I’m in the minority here when I say this but to me it seems like the US airlines and FAA are following their procedures, the same procedures that make the US airlines the safest in the world, while the rest of the world is, I don’t quite want to use the word panicking, but at least giving into pressure from people who aren’t aviation safety expert…

> I don’t think it’s a simple as saying the US airlines and FAA are simply being greedy and placing profit over safety.

No. It all comes down to as simple as "better safe than sorry" philosophy. FAA have generally very conservative about air safety tolerance as they should. The normal response should be "we know 737 is safe", because we have data showing that over 10k+ deliveries and less than 3% had hull loss. Can FAA say that to Boeing 737Max8 today?! So instead of being conservative they are being bold and saying "we don't know if 737 Max is not safe because investigation has not been concluded." You see the difference now?

More and more evidence revealing that FAA/Boeing are placing profit over safety. Do you think FAA have a problem grounding AirBus planes with non hull loss accidents? Absolutely Not! In fact, they did exactly that in 2018 to AirBus 320neo [1]

> Let the downvotes begin.

This is the behavior to directly violate the HN rules. But having a minority opinion doesn't.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-30/pratt-sai...

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#257

Post by bistro »

TomMckenny wrote: post #226
yingw787 wrote: post #157

And then there was one. I do wonder if we can halt and revert the deterioration of the Civil Service before the whole "civilization is two days worth of food and water" scenario arrives. If it does, I think it'll be through something that generates a disproportionate amount of fear and anxiety in people resulting in a significant impact to the economy in a sector where middle to upper class folks are heavily exposed…

Also on the upside, we now have a list of countries that place more value on consumers than the US.

So, all of them?

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#258

Post by ww520 »

yingw787 wrote: post #157

And then there was one. I do wonder if we can halt and revert the deterioration of the Civil Service before the whole "civilization is two days worth of food and water" scenario arrives. If it does, I think it'll be through something that generates a disproportionate amount of fear and anxiety in people resulting in a significant impact to the economy in a sector where middle to upper class folks are heavily exposed…

FWIW, Trump just ordered the 737Max to be grounded, not sure whether it's despite of FAA decision or overriding them.

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#259

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

whttheuuu wrote: post #128
jackschultz wrote: post #111

Gotta ask, when's the time to buy Boeing stock? It's like all these things happen, stock gets dumped quickly, but it's not like this hurts the overall value of the company. Anyone have other examples of events like this taking down a big company's stock price for a limited time, but not affecting it overall?

this would absolutely hurt the overall value of the company

You would think so, but this graphic says otherwise

https://i.imgur.com/ir65AOr.jpg

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#260

Post by TomVDB »

helaoban wrote: post #245
danepowell wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand and agree that we don't want knee-jerk reactions on the part of regulators. I'm only an aviation enthusiast and by no means an expert, and fully admit that I could be wrong, and even with my natural inclination to reserve judgement, to me it seems obvious that grounding is warranted purely from a statistic viewpoint. Compare the release of the 737 MAX 8 with the release of other recent-ish models like th…

By this argument, all Boeing 777s should have been grounded after the loss of Malaysia 370 and Malaysia 17. Same plane, both incidents within 5 months of each other.

Only if you consider the total amount of time during which the plane has been in business an irrelevant detail.

Which it is not, of course.

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